splits

[Bill Murray]

So I get really crazy questions on splits all the time. Personally I dont make splits per say, I want my bees going into the nectar flow as strong as they can be. so I cut out a couple frames above a DSBB every 10 days and that is my swarm prevention and splitting. I would be interested how everyone else adresses this.

[Ben Framed]

That?s interesting Bill. I would like to hear more please Sir.
Phillip

[The15thMember]

I'm actually thinking about doing a hive or two like you described with my Snelgrove board this year, so I'd be interesting in hearing about your method as well, Bill.

I usually will split a colony if I'm looking for increase, just because I feel it's easier than letting them swarm and having to catch it.  I really don't do anything fancy though, I'm not even sure what the "name" of this split is or anything, I just sort of divide up the colony however seems best.  I'll move the frame with the queen, a couple frames of stores, and a couple frames of brood into another box.  Then I just let the original hive make a new queen, and everyone is good to go.  I just be sure to remember that the section with the new queen is going to lose foragers to drift back to the original colony, so I need to be sure they have enough food to withstand that lack of nectar coming in, and of course, I make sure the section that is now queenless has plenty of eggs.   

[little john]

I really don't do anything fancy though, I'm not even sure what the "name" of this split is or anything,

If you let the Q-ve box make it's own Queen, then that's usually referred to as a 'Walkaway Split' (as opposed to giving the Q-ve box a Q/Cell or Virgin, or introducing a mated Queen). I don't make splits myself, although I do know that this is a very popular method of making increase with hobbyists.

The main issue with 'Walkaway Splits' is getting the hive 'locations' right - with the box holding the old queen being moved to a new stand, and the Q-ve (Queenless) box staying on the old stand where it will benefit from the forager workforce returning there, the youngest of which will revert to nurse bees.

Meanwhile, within the Q+ve (Queenright) section on the new stand, the oldest of the nurse bees will shortly be elevated to forager status, a little earlier than would normally have happened.
'best,
LJ

[Acebird]

I really don't do anything fancy though, I'm not even sure what the "name" of this split is or anything, I just sort of divide up the colony however seems best.

It is called a "walk away" I do even less.  I divide boxes and let them go.  Using all mediums it is likely that the brood nest spans at least two boxes.

[Bill Murray]

Day 1 pull a frame of just hatched larva, a good feed frame (plenty of pollen/nectar ), and a frame of capped brood. Leave bees on the frames Put these on top of the DSBB shake 1 -3 frames of nurse bees in with them, (make sure your queens not on any of the frames going ontop) put entrance to rear of hive. If your using the snelgrove open the top door at rear all others closed.

 10 days later you should have capped queen cells. Move capped QC frame food frame and bees on them to mating nuc. And reload the box above the DSBB, install an imirie shim on top of the parent hive to allow the now foragers to reenter the parent hive, and face entrance on DSBB to front. If using the snelgrove open bottom entrance to rear and top entrance to front. If they fail for some reason to make cells put those frames back in the parent box and start again.

 10 days later, you will have capped cells above the DSBB (reload these), reverse entrances and your queens in the mating nucs should be hatched. If not move frames back into any hive.

 In another 10 Days when you again are reloading above the DSBB, and reversing entrances the Queens in the mating nucs will be mated and laying. Move the mated ones into nucs. If small, deformed, not mated etc. cull and start again with new frames

[cao]

  I really don't do anything fancy though, I'm not even sure what the "name" of this split is or anything, I just sort of divide up the colony however seems best.  I'll move the frame with the queen, a couple frames of stores, and a couple frames of brood into another box.  Then I just let the original hive make a new queen, and everyone is good to go.  I just be sure to remember that the section with the new queen is going to lose foragers to drift back to the original colony, so I need to be sure they have enough food to withstand that lack of nectar coming in, and of course, I make sure the section that is now queenless has plenty of eggs.   

I usually call moving the queen with some of the bees an artificial swarm.  I call a walkaway split more of splitting the hive in half and only checking that there are eggs in each half.

[Occam]

Do y'all check for queen cells after a split of do you prefer waiting and checking for eggs?

[The15thMember]

I'm trying not doing QC reduction this year, so I have just been checking for eggs.  When I reduced, I would obviously check for cells. 

[cao]

Do y'all check for queen cells after a split of do you prefer waiting and checking for eggs?

Usually I let the bees just do their thing and check back when there should be a queen laying.

[Ben Framed]

> I usually call moving the queen with some of the bees an artificial swarm.  I call a walkaway split more of splitting the hive in half and only checking that there are eggs in each half.

Same here.

[Occam]

Do y'all check for queen cells after a split of do you prefer waiting and checking for eggs?

Usually I let the bees just do their thing and check back when there should be a queen laying.

Just split a hive last week for the first time. Was thinking I should just wait about 4 weeks then check for eggs. Then intervene if needed

[Terri Yaki]

Just split a hive last week for the first time. Was thinking I should just wait about 4 weeks then check for eggs. Then intervene if needed

I'm curious about this. I'd have a hard time resisting the urge to check its progress every 7 to 10 days.

[The15thMember]

It's generally best to leave colonies in queen transition alone.  At certain times in their development, queen cells are pretty delicate and shouldn't be jostled around.  Virgins are difficult to spot and can be flighty, so it would be easy to accidentally crush one or have her end up outside the hive.  Also you don't want to interrupt any of the critical stages of the process, like a fight between virgins or a mating flight.  Lastly, you don't want to do anything to make the bees think something annoying you have done is the new queen's fault.  You want to let her get some amount of a brood nest established so the bees can appropriately assess her, without them thinking that your constantly coming in and tearing the nest apart is a characteristic of the new queen and have them supersede immediately.   

[Terri Yaki]

That all sounds logical. And how long do you figure I should wait before I inspect my swarm hive? I'm itching to peek inside it.

[The15thMember]

I don't have any personal experience with that, but if it was me, I'd wait about a week from the time they moved in. 

[Lesgold]

With both splits and swarms the easiest check is a visual one from outside the hive. When you think that the queen could or should laying, just watch for pollen coming in. If the bees are bringing in heaps in the mid morning on a sunny day, there is a good chance that there is young larvae present that need to be fed. It?s not 100% accurate but it is a good indicator that the hive is progressing. I would check the hive after seeing that. The bees always seem happy and busy when the hive is travelling well.

[max2]

Do y'all check for queen cells after a split of do you prefer waiting and checking for eggs?

Usually I let the bees just do their thing and check back when there should be a queen laying.

Just split a hive last week for the first time. Was thinking I should just wait about 4 weeks then check for eggs. Then intervene if needed

4 weeks or a month ( in my case) has worked for me well.
I used to open the nuc's after 8 days to check for queen cells.
I don't do this anymore.
A month and open, check for the brood pattern ( generally only eggs at this point) and move/sell.

The advantage of checking after 8 days is that you can move extra cells into any nuc which has no q cells.

I do 8 to 12 nuc's only at a time

[Terri Yaki]

With both splits and swarms the easiest check is a visual one from outside the hive. When you think that the queen could or should laying, just watch for pollen coming in. If the bees are bringing in heaps in the mid morning on a sunny day, there is a good chance that there is young larvae present that need to be fed. It?s not 100% accurate but it is a good indicator that the hive is progressing. I would check the hive after seeing that. The bees always seem happy and busy when the hive is travelling well.

Thanks. They started bringing pollen in the day after they moved in and they're still bringing some in but not much. I don't know what for pollen should be in right now but mostly, it's been orange tulip poplar but now I'm seeing a whiteish green in lower quantities. Our cars are all covered with pollen but I don't know where it's from or if it's even anything they can use. The only thing we have here that I can think of is the arborvitae and I don't know if that's a pollen that they can use.

[BeeMaster2]

Terri,
I also watch for pollen coming into a swarm hive. My last swarm took over a week before they started bringing in pollen. That was probably because the queen was a virgin from a secondary swarm and they waited until they had wet larvae before calling for pollen.
Jim Altmiller