Author Topic: Are "Bump-Stocks" getting banned? (Read 23225 times)

CoolBees · « **on:** December 18, 2018, 03:59:44 pm »

I heard several times on the news this morning that Bump-Stocks are getting banned in the USA, and that owners will have 90 days to turn them in once the law goes into effect.

Any thoughts or other news on this?

Alan

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2018, 04:03:45 pm »

They just reported the same thing just now on the radio.
Not sure where the law came from. Hard to believe that congress approved it in both houses and the president signed it.
Jim

CoolBees · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2018, 04:08:15 pm »

Exactly.

Also:

No registration opportunity?

No compensation?

There must be more to this than has been reported.

iddee · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2018, 04:19:26 pm »

https://www.theblaze.com/bump-stock-ban

CoolBees · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2018, 04:34:47 pm »

Quote from: iddee on December 18, 2018, 04:19:26 pm

https://www.theblaze.com/bump-stock-ban

From the article: ... The National Rifle Association ... is reportedly preparing for a lawsuit. It's not clear whether or not the ban would survive a court battle. ... No compensation will be provided in return for the bump stock. ...

No compensation or registration - Thats kind of unprecedented.

Machine guns of most all types can be legally owned today (if you can afford it and pass the required background checks) via several routes. They were never completely "banned" - you just can't buy them over-the-counter, so to speak.

I'd be suprised if this stands a legal challenge.

gww · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2018, 07:21:18 pm »

President signed it into law today saying he kept his promise.
Cheers
gww

Kathyp · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2018, 07:44:29 pm »

It's being done under the same law that restricts full auto weapons so I'm guess they will face the same restrictions. As pointed out, you can jump through the hoops and get full auto weapons, but few actually qualify to do so or want to jump those hoops.

We have not seen the actual order and it was not a new law. It is an EO done by way of ATF. A reclassification, if you will.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2018, 09:39:44 pm »

Quote from: kathyp on December 18, 2018, 07:44:29 pm

We have not seen the actual order and it was not a new law. It is an EO done by way of ATF. A reclassification, if you will.

Which means that is is not constitutional. It?s not a law that congress approved and then signed by the president.
Jim

Kathyp · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2018, 10:41:29 pm »

Quote

Which means that is is not constitutional. It?s not a law that congress approved and then signed by the president.

It's not a weapon. It's an add-on. Because it is not a weapon and does not technically impact 2nd amendment issues, I think it is within the ATF wheelhouse to regulate.

Honestly, I don't think anyone will challenge it. I can't think what grounds they would use.

CoolBees · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2018, 11:23:11 pm »

The way my small brain sees it - the government can't just pass a "ruling" requiring any person to Turn In something that they legally purchased - regardless of what that "something" is. They have to compensate the individual, or allow a means to continue legal ownership. This goes far beyond the 2nd Amendment. Imho.

Even once machine guns were banned, legal owners were offered a path of registration.

Also - all bump-stocks that I saw sold (10 yrs ago?) Came with a letter from the BATFE stating specifically that they had been reviewed and were legal.

I can see several groups taking issue with being forced to turn something in with no alternatives. What is next? ... with they want to take our homes without compensation? ... it has been done in history, just not here ... yet ...

Alan

Michael Bush · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2018, 08:59:36 am »

>I'd be suprised if this stands a legal challenge.

The problem is legally defining it. If a "bump stock" is any stock that allows you to loosely hold your gun and stiffly holding your trigger finger in such a way as to cause it to fire on the "bump" then that would include any stock on any semi-auto rifle. It is very difficult, maybe impossible, to come up with a specific legal definition that doesn't outlaw every semi-auto rifle. I suppose you could specify any stock that was purposefully designed to do this, but it's difficult to prove that it was done on purpose or by accident.

The other problem, of course, is that the president can't make laws... though George H.W. Bush used an executive order to ban the import of "assault rifles" it was never challenged and I'm sure it was unconstitutional...

But odds are no one will challenge this one unless the ATF decides to be unreasonable in it's interruption and implementation.

Kathyp · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2018, 12:43:13 pm »

Quote

The other problem, of course, is that the president can't make laws.

No he can't but this points up the problem with all alphabet agencies. They can "regulate". Same thing as making laws, but upheld over and over.

Presidents make law all the time by way of these agencies and their regulations.

Sputnik · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2018, 08:43:32 am »

Can they be banned? In time, yes. Can they be confiscated without compensation? That seems to be a problem with the 5th amendment. I own one of the ridiculous things, it was a gift about 12 years ago. If you want to rapidly spray bullets with a low percentage chance of hitting a barn , then it is the thing to have. I tried it out took it off the ak and it has been in the closest since then.
Elephants are eaten one little bite at a time.

Live Oak · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2018, 09:41:00 pm »

In short, what the bump stock ban is about is it is a 2 step process to ban and confiscate ALL semi-automatic firearms.

The bump stock ban is NOT a law, it is currently a regulation that has been placed on the Federal Register. Once it has been on the Federal Register for 90 days, it becomes law that can be resinded or enforced by the next president. In a nutshell, regulations made into law in this fashion are absolutely unconstitutional and immoral.

What the vast majority of American DO NOT realize is that once this "regulation" implemented by Trump pulling it out of his ass to be politically correct is that this so called regulation makes bump stocks machine guns under the NFA Acts of 1934 and 1968 which are also totally unconstitutional and immoral. If you read chapter 2, paragraph 2.6.1 of the BATFE NFA Handbook, you will QUICKLY realize there is a "readily restorable clause in that section that ALSO makes any firearm that can be readily restored to fire automatically is ALSO a machine gun.

Bump stocks are junk! You DO NOT need a bump stock to rapid fire like a machine gun, you can do this with your finger VERY easily. Watch the below video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RdAhTxyP64

The man in the video by law has just readily restored a semi-automatic firearm to fire automatically according to the new regulation in conjunction with the BATFE NFA Handbook. He has committed a future felony if you follow along with the twist progressive Marxist logic of the thugs at the BATFE. The BATFE are doing what Trump is ordering them to do.

There is a lot I do not like about Trump and a lot I DO like about Trump. Trump has accomplished more in 2 years in positive and productive changes than any president in my lifetime and since Calvin Coolidge in my opinion. Guns and the 2nd amendment are NON-NEGOTIABLE with me. Trump has crossed a bold red line with me and I cannot any longer support him unless he rescinds this regulation and stands by his word to protect the 2nd amendment.

It is NOT the bump stock. It IS the back door attempt to confiscate ALL semi-automatic firearms that IS the issue. If this is allowed to proceed forward.......NOTHING ELSE matters, not the wall, not tax cuts, not health care, none of it. A government that can take our natural born rights and liberties can take everything without limits once our natural born right to self defense is taken.

Don't take my word on this. Do your OWN research and find out for yourself.

CoolBees · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2018, 09:50:16 pm »

Live Oak - I believe you nailed it on the head. ... what you just said, is why I posted this originally. It isn't about the Bump Stocks. They are junk. They don't work (properly) ... and they aren't the main point of this law/regulation.

I just wonder how many people understand that.

Alan

Live Oak · « **Reply #15 on:** December 22, 2018, 02:37:12 pm »

This is what gun bans lead to:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/venezuelans-regret-gun-prohibition-we-could-have-defended-ourselves?fbclid=IwAR1KoDcw6CrOsSgCqNIHGN6ZfooecY7VUZdeyuwhFj8TrfVpKC5gOmFN1ME

CoolBees · « **Reply #16 on:** December 22, 2018, 02:59:15 pm »

Quote from: Live Oak on December 22, 2018, 02:37:12 pm

This is what gun bans lead to:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/venezuelans-regret-gun-prohibition-we-could-have-defended-ourselves?fbclid=IwAR1KoDcw6CrOsSgCqNIHGN6ZfooecY7VUZdeyuwhFj8TrfVpKC5gOmFN1ME

Great article. Sad - that it always ends the same.

The only thing we learn from history, is that we DON'T LEARN FROM HISTORY!

10framer · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2019, 01:13:46 am »

this was the stone they threw in a pond that made no ripple. now you'll notice everybody is trying to push red flag laws through on the state level. pay attention to this quote. "i'm for taking the guns early. i like take the guns first , due process second." Donald J Trump speaking about red flag laws. he tested the water with the bump stock ban then he told all his old democrat buddies to go ahead and start pushing the red flag laws through. we have a new york democrat in the white house under whom more gun legislation has been pushed through since the clinton era and his supporters won't dare say a thing. the irony is that if hillary had beat him the republicans would still have the house and the senate and there's now way the bump stock ban would have seen the light of day. we have made a terrible, long term mistake. the trade deficit with china is now at a record high (oops), gas prices have risen right back up to the levels they were at a year ago, the jobs market has stopped growing, we still have obamacare and now tax payers will pay for a wall they were promised mexico would shell out the cash for. also, they say that in the last year something like 7 billion was lost due to tariffs, and dairies in the midwest are dropping like flies. two of the largest pork producers to get tariff bail out money are owned by chinese and the largest meat packer to get bailed out is owned by brazil if i remember right. there is a fox in the henhouse and he needs to goin 2020. let's hope a real republican can step up and take the nomination from him and beat what ever insane knee jerk reaction the democrats have. there are at least 3 that have a strong chance and they are all for wealth distribution and gun control.

CoolBees · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2019, 02:15:17 am »

Quote from: 10framer on March 11, 2019, 01:13:46 am

... pay attention to this quote. "i'm for taking the guns early. i like take the guns first , due process second." Donald J Trump speaking about red flag laws. ... let's hope a real republican can step up and take the nomination from him and beat what ever insane knee jerk reaction the democrats have. there are at least 3 that have a strong chance and they are all for wealth distribution and gun control.

Sheesh. You make great points. I wish you were wrong. ... and I wish [right now] that I could swear here. ...

I'm not a fan of bump stocks. Never was. They are useless. (Don't anybody argue with me on that). ... but the Precedent set by this ... well ... that's a real problem. ...

Michael Bush · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2019, 10:12:51 am »

"Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Yet those who DO study history are doomed to stand by helplessly while everyone else repeats it."--Tom Toro