Author Topic: Incubator (Read 11376 times)

Bush_84 · « **on:** March 06, 2018, 11:18:03 pm »

Hello all. I have a brinsea chicken incubator. I was wondering what the pros and cons of using this for queen rearing? I plan on raising a few queens but not a ton. I was just thinking that I have this incubator and was wondering if it was worthwhile using.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2018, 11:30:10 pm »

Bush,
I have successfully used my chicken incubator to hatch queen cells. Set the temp to 95 F.
Jim

Acebird · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2018, 08:32:11 am »

Isn't an incubator a machine that rolls the eggs every so often?

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2018, 09:03:26 am »

The egg roller is an add on on most incubators and can be taken out if you need to.
Jim

Bush_84 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2018, 09:49:03 am »

Ya mine does have the turner but it?s removable. What are the pros of using this device? Do people generally put the queen cell in a mating nuc when ready or a virgin? If virgin what is the best way to introduce a virgin to a hive?

little john · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2018, 10:10:19 am »

Quote from: Bush_84 on March 07, 2018, 09:49:03 am

What are the pros of using this device? Do people generally put the queen cell in a mating nuc when ready or a virgin? If virgin what is the best way to introduce a virgin to a hive?

Never used an incubator - but one day I might ...

The people I know that use 'em all favour the Nicot system with it's roller cages, and so leave the virgins to emerge inside them. One guy even includes a single worker bee inside each roller cage to ensure that the virgin is fed from the smear of honey in the roller cage base. Which is an interesting idea, but dunno if I'd do that. Might be worth trying ?

There are several ways of introducing virgins: one is to use more smoke than you can possibly imagine; another is to run the virgin into a nuc having just dunked her in dilute honey. I know that one works ok, as I've done it lots of times. Around two days after emergence is best (imo), just before the virgin starts to generate her own pheromones.
LJ

Bush_84 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2018, 01:02:13 pm »

My main reason to do this was to have an insurance policy against queens that don?t emerge for whatever reason. In my limited experience with rearing/mating queens it seems that there is always a queen that never makes it out. Once it becomes clear that this is the case I don?t have any replacement. I then have a nuc or mating nuc without a queen and I have no ability to give it one. If I put a couple of cells in an incubator I could simply replace it with a virgin. If I don?t run into issues I could pinch her or make another mating nuc.

Bush_84 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2018, 03:27:44 pm »

I like to tinker in the workshop. So I made a few of these.

As you can see the cell protector fits right into the hole of the California mini cage. So assuming I can fit a cell into the protector (had issues with that last year) that should work out nicely. I couldn?t get the jzbz cages figured out. I?d prefer to use the jzbz cages but if I can?t figure out how to get a queen to emerge into it I?ll just use the California minis.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2018, 03:45:18 pm »

Quote from: Bush_84 on March 07, 2018, 09:49:03 am

Ya mine does have the turner but it?s removable. What are the pros of using this device? Do people generally put the queen cell in a mating nuc when ready or a virgin? If virgin what is the best way to introduce a virgin to a hive?

Your best bet for acceptance is to put a queen cell in a queenless hive. Acceptance is pretty high.
Jim

Acebird · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2018, 04:20:49 pm »

Quote from: Bush_84 on March 07, 2018, 03:27:44 pm

I?d prefer to use the jzbz cages but if I can?t figure out how to get a queen to emerge into it I?ll just use the California minis.

Let the queen emerge into the CA mini and then transfer her to the jzbz.

little john · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2018, 07:28:48 am »

Quote from: Bush_84 on March 07, 2018, 01:02:13 pm

My main reason to do this was to have an insurance policy against queens that don?t emerge for whatever reason.

Sure - sound thinking. I know you prefer the jzbz cages - but checkout Ebay #222216795723 - at that price, it's hardly worth making your own kit.
LJ

Bush_84 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2018, 11:06:37 am »

Quote from: little john on March 08, 2018, 07:28:48 am

Quote from: Bush_84 on March 07, 2018, 01:02:13 pm
My main reason to do this was to have an insurance policy against queens that don?t emerge for whatever reason.

Sure - sound thinking. I know you prefer the jzbz cages - but checkout Ebay #222216795723 - at that price, it's hardly worth making your own kit.
LJ

Unfortunately all of my stuff is geared towards using jzbz equipment. I guess it?s really only just the cups, frames, and cages, but I don?t have any of the nicot system stuff. I don?t know if you can piecemeal that stuff but the complete system at Mann lake is like $80.

beepro · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2018, 09:40:45 pm »

Q: Do people generally put the queen cell in a mating nuc when ready or a virgin? If virgin what is the best way to introduce a virgin to a hive?

A: I have a converted mini fridge for an incubator. Made that last year to hatch
QCs. It doesn't matter. You can do either put a QC or a virgin into a mating nuc. The advantage of using a QC is that the bees will help you incubate it. If they don't accept the cell then it will be torn down. So make sure the cell is protected or the nuc is desperately in need of a queen. The advantage of using a virgin though is that you don't have to wait for the entire incubating process. A 1-3 days virgin has not develop her queen scent yet. Her chance of being accepted will be increase within this time frame. So release her early as soon as she emerged from the cell into the mating nuc. The earlier the better because a helpless virgin will be readily accepted by any bee. If you went pass the 3 days time frame than the chance of her being balled will be increase. This is because her smell is different now.

If you are going to introduce the virgin into a hive or a mating nuc then do it early within hours after she emerged. But don't wait too long after the 3 days time frame. Just dump her on to the frame with the bees. Never put a virgin into a cage with a candy plug. They will not release her in time. A direct release is the best option right after emergence. Ohh, ebay has cheap nicot copy too. Or you can do a graft.

little john · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2018, 07:12:48 am »

Quote from: Bush_84 on March 08, 2018, 11:06:37 am

Quote from: little john on March 08, 2018, 07:28:48 am
Quote from: Bush_84 on March 07, 2018, 01:02:13 pm
My main reason to do this was to have an insurance policy against queens that don?t emerge for whatever reason.

Sure - sound thinking. I know you prefer the jzbz cages - but checkout Ebay #222216795723 - at that price, it's hardly worth making your own kit.
LJ

Unfortunately all of my stuff is geared towards using jzbz equipment. I guess it?s really only just the cups, frames, and cages, but I don?t have any of the nicot system stuff. I don?t know if you can piecemeal that stuff but the complete system at Mann lake is like $80.

With those Ebay 'cages' - all you need is a frame to hold them and a packet of brown cell-cups. These are something like 4-5 GB Pounds - so I'd guess around $7 for a hundred. And they can be re-used. No need to clean them thoroughly, just cut a popsicle stick down to size, and scrape them out. The bees will clean 'em up ok. You really don't need the laying cage - in fact most people don't use them. I bought a couple - for me it was the biggest waste of money ever. Some people use 'em ok, but I found that either the queen flatly refused to lay in them, or of she did, then the bees just removed the eggs afterwards. So mine are collecting dust. For me, a total disaster - and many others say the same.

So I duly modified a few of the brown cell-cups for cell-punching, which has been working fine, although it is a tad slow, and disfigures perfectly good comb. I have played around with a couple of other methods, and this year I'm going to try 'grafting' yet again - but this time using a paintbrush after cutting-down the target cell walls with a scalpel.
LJ

Bush_84 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2018, 01:36:15 pm »

That looks like a good plan to me. I found a deal that has ten of each component with 100 cups and was $7. Not much of an investment there! I?ll give it a try.

While I may not be a grafting pro I showed improvement last year. First batch was not great. I changed my environment a bit. Took the comb back to my workshop. Build a frame rest. Got a comfy stool. Maximized lighting. Pushed down cell walls and I did very well. I use a Chinese grafting tool. Those things seem almost foolproof. Just slide it down the side of the wall and you get it.

little john · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2018, 05:10:48 pm »

$7 - strewth ! - and I thought I was good at spotting a bargain ...

I've been looking more into this incubator stuff today - should be easy enough to make one: 92-93 deg F with high humidity - doesn't sound like rocket science. And I've now read that quite a few guys put 3-5 nurse bees into each roller cage - so it wasn't such a daft idea after all.

Think I'll knock one up in the next few weeks - but need to finish my vapouriser build first. Will be running first trials tomorrow - but only a dry run at this stage.
LJ

Bush_84 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2018, 01:17:31 am »

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Complete-Queen-Rearing-Cupkit-System-Bee-Beekeeping-Catcher-Box-100-Cell-Cups/292319433787?hash=item440f98943b:g:HW4AAOSwVlVZ~8Yj

Took me forever to find again. So there?s a link so I don?t lose it again lol.

I?ve seen quite a few builds using a cooler, computer fan, and light bulb. Then various temperature controller stuff. I keep chickens and eventually just bought the incubator as opposed to building one. I got the brinsea eco 20. Works well. Humidity is easy to get up. My brinsea has two trenches that takes water. I just put paper towels in the trough and lay up in the rest of the floor. It wicks moisture up nicely and keeps humidity high.

The vaporizer build was fun. I was able to save a ton building it myself and am happy that I can save a ton on treating varroa. I?ve only actually used oa once. I?ve otherwise just tested with water.

little john · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2018, 06:20:25 am »

Dan - just in case you do buy these ...

I found that mounting can be problematic. The bases are intended to be attached with 4x very small diameter nails. I found these impossible to source, although I did have a few already in stock. When I ran out of them, I took to drilling a hole in the top of each base before then attaching them with a single small woodscrew. This was a much easier method of attachment, except that the base swivelled whenever I revolved a cell-holder in order to remove it - but a dab of glue on either side of the base easily fixed that :

LJ

capt44 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2018, 12:31:53 pm »

I put a 3/4 inch long #10 screw thru the middle of the base into the top bar.
So far it works great and I don't have any nails working lose after a few times of removing the cell cup holder.

iddee · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2018, 01:19:06 pm »

I just pop two staples in it with my air stapler. Quick and easy.z