Author Topic: Pollen Substitute (Read 5445 times)

rail · « **on:** September 07, 2011, 10:39:47 pm »

What pollen substitute works well for dry feeding?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #1 on:** September 07, 2011, 10:47:09 pm »

Usually I use straight pollen. Any that are dry seem to work. If I use anything else I mix them 50/50 with real pollen I don't lose a lot of sleep over what the protien content is (since it really doesn't measure how soluble it is anyway) or the rest of that. Usually I go to the health food store and buy full fat soy flour.

rail · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2011, 11:38:20 pm »

Recommended pollen trap for straight pollen for next season?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #3 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:04:25 am »

If you convert to upper entrances I'd get the Sundance II. Dadant even has it in eight frame. :)

BlueBee · « **Reply #4 on:** September 08, 2011, 02:48:36 am »

OK, this is probably a dumb question, but here goes. Will the bees eat a high protein meal that is not plant based?

As a human, if you’re trying to put on muscle mass (mostly protein) you can change your diet to more protein in hopes that it helps generate more muscle. The highest concentrated source of pure protein that I’m aware of is egg whites and whey.

What would happen to the bees, if we fed them a concoction of egg protein and whey?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #5 on:** September 08, 2011, 10:07:57 am »

>What would happen to the bees, if we fed them a concoction of egg protein and whey?

There are people who do that. I don't know how digestible nor how complete it is for Amino acids etc. since most of those are in the egg yolk...

iddee · « **Reply #6 on:** September 08, 2011, 10:31:57 am »

I use spent brewer's yeast. They take it really well and it's cheap.

sc-bee · « **Reply #7 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:17:36 pm »

Quote from: iddee on September 08, 2011, 10:31:57 am

I use spent brewer's yeast. They take it really well and it's cheap.

Mixed w/pollen or spent brews yeast alone. And what is the source of spent brewers yeast? Buy it from a brewery after they have used it?

BlueBee · « **Reply #8 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:29:33 pm »

Whey is typically 80%+ pure protein. 18 different amino acids for building bodies :)

Maybe I’ll have to do some experimenting this spring….

Might have to throw some mini dumb bells in there if my bees get too muscle bound :shock:

iddee · « **Reply #9 on:** September 08, 2011, 04:01:22 pm »

Yes, it comes from breweries after being used.

Mix it with sugar, real pollen, soy flour, or use it alone. They take it all ways.

Francus · « **Reply #10 on:** September 09, 2011, 12:47:47 pm »

I'll have to try brewer's yeast. I'm a homebrewer and have gobs of the stuff all the time.

rail · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2011, 06:12:08 am »

Quote from: Michael Bush on September 07, 2011, 10:47:09 pm

Usually I use straight pollen. Any that are dry seem to work. If I use anything else I mix them 50/50 with real pollen I don't lose a lot of sleep over what the protien content is (since it really doesn't measure how soluble it is anyway) or the rest of that. Usually I go to the health food store and buy full fat soy flour.

How do you feed the 50/50 to the bee's? Patties mixed with sugar solution, dry mixture inside or outside of hive?

Finski · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2011, 07:36:13 am »

.
Wheel inventing again.......

Pollen substitute has thorougly discusses many time here.

US larotories have made numerous researches and recipes what to do.

In Australia you find a booklet " fatty bees skinny bees". Very good .

Even if whey has protein, how good is amino acid balance. It is recommended nowhere in laboratory tests.

Egg yolk has 25% fat.

You have now modern commercial substitutes in USA and one has been proved clearly best compared to others.

i have 40 kg dry yeast and 50 soya flour in my stores. I give them 3 weeks before willow starts to bloom. New emerged bees get then fresh pollen.

rail · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2011, 08:07:02 pm »

Quote from: Michael Bush on September 08, 2011, 01:04:25 am

If you convert to upper entrances I'd get the Sundance II. Dadant even has it in eight frame. :)

I want to convert to upper entrances for the Sundance II pollen trap.

1) Can I start the conversion to top entrances this fall?

2) Top entrance open height 1/2" or 5/8"?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2011, 11:42:40 pm »

>1) Can I start the conversion to top entrances this fall?

I wouldn't do it when the night temps are expected to fall below 50 F as any bees who didn't find their way back in could die from cold. But if the temps will be above that, it should be a problem. A SBB seems to sometimes confuse them as well as they can smell but can't get into the hive from there.

>2) Top entrance open height 1/2" or 5/8"?

I would shim the top to make then entrance and that would be no less the 1/4" and no more then 3/8" with 1/4" my preference.

rdy-b · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:27:44 am »

Quote from: BlueBee on September 08, 2011, 02:48:36 am

OK, this is probably a dumb question, but here goes. Will the bees eat a high protein meal that is not plant based?

As a human, if you’re trying to put on muscle mass (mostly protein) you can change your diet to more protein in hopes that it helps generate more muscle. The highest concentrated source of pure protein that I’m aware of is egg whites and whey.

What would happen to the bees, if we fed them a concoction of egg protein and whey?

its a cost $$$ but yes you can make some high protein sub--but dont use egg white it is poisonous to bees-only egg yolk for benefit --RDY-B

Finski · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2011, 01:04:17 pm »

.
Hi guys!

Why don't you read a real knowlege about "bee nutrition". It has bee published in Usa and in many other countries, but mostly in USA.

1977 usa made fist comparative studies about stuffs what beekeepers use to give to bees.
Lots of stuff are not usefull like milk powder. 50% of milk powder is lactose which bees cannot use.

Very few understand what is amino acids.

The most important thing is that you may feed bees with what ever but it is another thins, do they eate it. Pollen substitute must contain 20% pollen out of protein. Then patty must have 50% sugar that it does grow mold or not ferment.
Then bees must get water from outside that they can use the patty. If they do not get, larvae become sick or they die.

When you look from google, there are "common sence" writting a huge amoun. I wonder why these guys are not able to read laboratory results.

In a German book about 1860 it was advice that "boil carrots and give the juice to bees after winter". The problems is that carrot has practically no nutrition value. it is 92% water and 2% sugar. It has 0,5% oxalic acid which make it tasty.

BlueBee · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2011, 03:58:46 am »

Finski, you’ve mentioned a couple of times that bees must get water from outside or the brood will become sick and die.

Have you thought about adding a water feeder inside your hives in the spring?

Finski · « **Reply #18 on:** October 14, 2011, 06:40:30 am »

Quote from: BlueBee on October 14, 2011, 03:58:46 am

Finski, you’ve mentioned a couple of times that bees must get water from outside or the brood will become sick and die.

Have you thought about adding a water feeder inside your hives in the spring?

yes I have. But my home is in the capital city 150 km away and I am not there offering to them something to drink. To add every week patty and drive that 300 km route is expencive enough.

There is no problem when I start patty feeding when snow has melted.

ispanyol · « **Reply #19 on:** October 14, 2011, 10:23:10 am »

Hello,
I am writing from Turkey.

I have .50 bee colony.

I could not believe I read on this subject.

Finski, you just typed what I already know the same things to me.

Soy flour, brewer's yeast are a joke I thought.

These things leave residue in honey.