Author Topic: Worried - Two Packages= Two very different results (Read 4420 times)

dp · « **on:** April 23, 2011, 11:18:12 pm »

Installed two four pound packages two weeks ago. I've been feeding them 1:1 and pollen patties. Upon inspection today, hive A had tons on new comb, lots of new uncapped brood. It even has some capped "honey", which I'm sure is sugar water. Okay...I'm very happy with this hive.

Hive B, bees are very active, not much comb built, one frame of drawn comb when I installed the package, which is now COVERED in bees. I can't even really see if there is any brood/larvae at all in it. I can't find the queen, but as covered as that one frame is with bees, she could be there and I would have a difficult time seeing her.

It's just very odd that I have two hives, started at the same time, 10 feet apart, one is doing what I consider great, and the other doesn't appear to be on the road to survival. Am I paranoid for no reason? I'm worried that the queen may have died or possibly just be a dud? Help!

Shanevrr · « **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2011, 11:24:06 pm »

shes hard to find, took me two hours to inspect 4 hives and find queens. i have same issues as you

Kathyp · « **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2011, 11:34:32 pm »

different hives do different things. you do need to go back to that slower hive and make sure you have a queen. no need to look for her. look for eggs or very small larvae. if you see that, she's been there recently. there's no real harm in new beekeepers spending time looking in hives, but remember that your inspections disrupt the hives. unless you have some pressing reason to find the queen, or really want the practice ;), don't drive yourself nuts doing it.

Shanevrr · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2011, 11:41:41 pm »

i couldnt see any eggs or larvae in any of mine

backyard warrior · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2011, 11:42:35 pm »

Last year I did a cut out and had the same thing happen they just werent building out the foundation little brood and not progressing very well. I kept hoping for the best. To make a long story short i should have pinched the queen long ago and bought a new one needless to say the hive never made it. If you dont like what you see find the queen and pinch her and start over not every queen is a good queen. If you are seeing a big difference between the two obviously you have a problem thats why all the experienced beeks always say to have two hives to compare from. What you could do is take a frame from your good hive with young larvae not more than three days old brush all the bees off and give it too the struggling hive to make a new queen from the good hive or if you want to spend some money order a mated queen to introduce. Chris

backyard warrior · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2011, 11:45:14 pm »

Packages are mass produced lots of times the queens are improperly mated or never mated and become drong layers. There is lots of times package queens arent good queens. Raising your own queen and doing it the proper way gives excellent results or buying from a reputable queen raising business that sells just queens and not packages Chris

dp · « **Reply #6 on:** April 24, 2011, 01:59:44 am »

The queen in my bad hive is marked, so she shouldn't be too difficult to see. I found my unmarked queens in my other two hives. I guess one of the weird things about this hive is the amount of bees on the one frame of drawn out comb that was in the hive when I introduced the package. They are on that frame so thick that I can't tell if there is any eggs or larvae. It is very strange to see that many bees on one frame. I guess I wonder if the queen didn't make it, or not. They are not what I would call "rolling" like the other hive that is for sure.

I guess i'll give it a few more days and look again when we get some decent weather. :?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #7 on:** April 24, 2011, 06:22:20 am »

You can move bees if you have a veil on by blowing on them. Make sure you have a veil, though, sometimes one will fly right off the comb and nail you when you do this.

dp · « **Reply #8 on:** April 24, 2011, 12:04:30 pm »

I tried the old blowing on them, but when I say there are a lot of bees on this one frame, I've never seen anything like it. This was a 4# package added to this deep. It's like the bees are two deep, stacked on each other! I'll catch a quick glimpse of the drawn comb below, but it is older comb and would be very difficult to see if there was any eggs or larvae.

I guess I'll just hang tough for a week and check again. Maybe I just need to relax :)

Shanevrr · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2011, 12:38:43 pm »

you should try and look in the middle of the day while there all out foraging, should be a lot less bees

Kathyp · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2011, 01:25:43 pm »

a gentle shake will cause many to leave. don't do it to hard or you may dislodge larvae. also, make sure you do it right over the hive. if you shake off the queen, you want her to drop into the hive, not the grass! you can also rest the frame on the top of the other frames and give a couple of SMALL puffs of smoke to the frame. many bees will run down into the hive.

Finski · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2011, 02:07:25 pm »

.
If the queen does not lay enough, it is better to change it.
If you join those packages, you will se a miracle.

I have joined much swarms and 8 lbs swarm is the best start.
It occupies 2 langstroth boxes. It makes one box brood and is able to get to me 80 lbs honey to be extracted.

dp · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2011, 12:01:15 am »

shook the bees off of the frame today.....no eggs or brood. JUst a bunch of sugar water stored in the cells. I'm assuming now that hive "B" doesn't have a queen. So, with all the expert opinions out there....do I combine it with my other 4# package, or do I attempt to pull a frame of eggs/larvae out of one of my existing hives and have them raise a queen?

I'm a little worried about taking a frame of eggs and brood from a hive that is coming out of winter and rebuilding well. Won't it set back a good hive?

While I'm at it, when do you move the top deep with the bees to the bottom?

backyard warrior · « **Reply #13 on:** April 27, 2011, 03:35:12 pm »

You should subscribe to the amercian bee journal and bee culture also if you have questions go to the search engine on the top right of this site and type in the phrase you area interested in like reversing the deeps and lots of things will come up and answer lots of your questions Chris. As far as reversing i dont do it but some do. You reverse when all of the brood is in the top deep. You dont want to reverse when there is brood in the top and bottom boxes because it splits the brood. The bees generally like to work down so as the nectar comes into the hive the bees will drive the queen down naturally. Its always best to go into a hive with a purpose not just to find the queen and look at all the brood. You want to know exactly why you are going into the hive such as how much nectar is there, how much pollen, is the brood pattern good, is there lots of brood?? are they gentle, is there any brood diseases if you dont know you should learn. Bothering the hives the least amount is best for the bees but if you are a new bekeeper its important to get into the hives when the population is down to know what to look for. I always wanted to see the queen and im sure most starters do. But now all i want to see is healthy brood and larvae in all stages. I use to be afraid of stings now i just were a veil the stings really dont bother me its more of a phsycological issue then it is a pain issue.

backyard warrior · « **Reply #14 on:** April 27, 2011, 03:38:00 pm »

No it really wont set back the hive you took them from unless you removed the queen with the frame. The hive that doesnt have the queen will be set back until they raise a new one. If it was me i would buy a new one to get them going right away. Its important to have lots of bees in a hive raising queens like when they are ready to swarm why ?? because there is lots of bees to feed them none stop and keep them warm lots of bees equalls healthy large queens. Not alot of bees and emergency supercedure results in a queen that isnt feed and warmth as well and usually is smaller and less productive.

dp · « **Reply #15 on:** April 29, 2011, 10:09:54 pm »

Finski,

I think I'm going to do as you suggest. I'm going to check one more time tomorrow and see if any brood exists, if not, I'm going to combine it with my other package and have one strong hive.

I've read all about combining hives, but I guess the one question that I will have is if I put paper between them, the top hive will not have an entrance for the bees to come and go. Will they be alright for a few days without an entrance, or do they eat through the paper pretty quick. Just a couple layers of newspaper is what I've read???

Thanks for all of the info.

hardwood · « **Reply #16 on:** April 29, 2011, 11:26:27 pm »

You need to give them an upper entrance. Just prop whatever top you are using with a stick.

Scott

dp · « **Reply #17 on:** April 30, 2011, 01:03:15 am »

nice simple idea. Thanks!

dp · « **Reply #18 on:** April 30, 2011, 07:46:23 pm »

one question, if I do combine hives, and they are currently about 10-15' apart, will they find their way home? I've always heard and read about how moving them short distances can mess with the old compass.

Finski · « **Reply #19 on:** April 30, 2011, 11:08:48 pm »

.
When you combine the hives during warm sunny days, bees will relocate their home in 2 hours.