Lots of propylis, difficult to pull frames

[timjea]

Acquired a semi neglected hive last weekend.  I don't think the prev owner checked or pulled frames for quite a while .  This is my first hive. It was a new hive from nuc in June, was in 2 deeps.  Considerably heavy, considerably propolized together.  Took quite a while to pry out the frames in the top hive body. Lots of burr comb on under side of cover and tops of frames.  I removed most of that.  The girls were ticked! Did I mention HOW MANY bees there were?  It was difficult to manuever my hive tool around them.  I thought they would be out foraging?  They were banging on my veil regardless of smoke or sugar water I sprayed.  I was trying to be smooth and slow, I'm sure I just exceeded their patience.  8 full frames of honey and 2 frames with honey on one side each, near 80% full on those sides.  I closed the hive up for a few hours.  Went back in at 4pm. Lots of brace comb at tops of frames, and surprisingly, lots of bridge comb from frame to frame, filled with honey.  I have never seen this in any book, youtube video, or tutorials online.  Not sure what to do about it. This bridge comb is just in the middle of the frame.  It obviously breaks when I lift a frame.  (Deep frames of honey are much heavier than I thought they would be - think I'm going to get a frame handle tool)  Anyway - continuing with my story. Took a while to finally pry the top hive body from the lower one.  Moved the top one off. 
my gosh that thing was heavy! Massive propylis and burr comb on top of frames in lower body.  I worked on it until the swarm was just livid.  I could see 3 frames on one end had zero wax drawn - not what I was expecting.  I did NOT get ANY frames on the bottom loose, pulled/inspected.  I reassembled the hive and figured I prob need to leave them alone for a few day before I go back and cause more trauma.

I'm open to advice, you won't hurt my feelings.  Hoping to hear opinions on what to do if anything about the bridge comb with honey that stretched between frames.  My idea was to try and cut it off fairly even with rest of capped honey, and catch it in a bowl.  Do several frames. Put the frames back, and put the bowl in front of the hive.  Figure the girls will collect it up and take it back in, and that they will clean up all the spilled honey inside and recap, hopefully correctly this time.  I'm not going to do that though until I get a bit of feedback.

One last thing - never, never in all the pictures and videos that I have watched have I seen as many bees as are in my hive.  I mean, literally, when I got the top cover off (not inner cover there) there were so many bees across the top, it was truly hard to count the number of frames to see if there where 10 there.  And when I removed the top hive body and got to the bottom one, it was almost the same, but not quite.  Maybe 10% less.  On the frames I pulled, bees were falling off everywhere, and sliding the frame back in, ditto, bees were getting raked off.  Is it too late to add a medium super? Maybe they just need more room?

Sorry for how long this was,I hope many of you will enjoy reading it, I hope atleast a few will pitch me your thoughts.

Dane

[Michael Bush]

I don't know where you are located.  Here adding a super now would be a waste, but if you're fall flow is still going it might pay.  Ours is over even though we haven't had a killing frost, they nectar has dried up except for the dandelions after the rain.

I would leave them until spring.  They can recover much better from things in the spring.  You may have to scrap some comb that is too crooked etc, and all of that has to be repaired.

[Keith13]

Also watch out putting bowls of honey and comb around your hive entrance. Yes it sounds like you have a strong hive but the smell of honey might prompt robbing of the hive by feral bees.

Keith

[KONASDAD]

First, congratulations on your first hive. The hard part is behind you,-gettting bees and first inspection. Take the excess honey from supers, leave as much in brood nest and leave bees for spring. Start reading. and reading until spring.

[rast]

 You spoke of getting a frame handle tool. What I don't like about the one's (2) that I have seen is that when you release the pressure on the tool, the frames falls out.
 I made one out a pair of vice grips that I can spin around, etc. while I am doing whatever I'm doing and not release until I want it too. With the angle on the vice grips towards the me, it is also easy to keep the same frame orientation. 

[timjea]

Thanks for the replies.  So what I am hearing is that it really is not a problem at this point to leave the hive alone until spring, then pull and replace frames as needed.  I'm visualizing that during the winter, the bees effectively will eat up most of the honey and begin the cleanup process for me.  Based on the number of bees I'm seeing, I really think it will be possible to split the hive come spring anyway.  There is still some nector flow as we have had an unusually mild summer with extra rains.  Would there be any advantage to reversing the hive bodies, so that the bees might begin to fill out the final remaining 3-4 fr5ames in the lower hive body?  Those 3-4 frames are bare on both sides.

Dane

[Michael Bush]

Yes, in the spring there will be less honey and less bees to deal with.  Here, I'd get into that hive about mid April before the big spring buildup, but after a few things are blooming so they have some income to work with to rebuild and then go through the whole thing and remove any cross combs etc.

[Brian D. Bray]

Acquired a semi neglected hive last weekend.  I don't think the prev owner checked or pulled frames for quite a while .  This is my first hive. It was a new hive from nuc in June, was in 2 deeps.  Considerably heavy, considerably propolized together.  Took quite a while to pry out the frames in the top hive body. Lots of burr comb on under side of cover and tops of frames.  I removed most of that.

That is what is taught and practiced but at this time of year I'd have left it, it was part of their winter stores.  I like to have my hives full of honey to the point that they've backfilled most of the brood chamber and built some burr comb.

  The girls were ticked! Did I mention HOW MANY bees there were?  It was difficult to manuever my hive tool around them.  I thought they would be out foraging?  They were banging on my veil regardless of smoke or sugar water I sprayed. 

What was the temps and weather like, on cooler, chillier days the bees tend to stay home.  Also a strong hive will always have lots of bees at home.

I was trying to be smooth and slow, I'm sure I just exceeded their patience.  8 full frames of honey and 2 frames with honey on one side each, near 80% full on those sides.

That's normal, the outside frames are always storage frames.  Sounds like  your bees are center orientated and work the sides of the hive last.  Bees can be front, back, center, left and right orientated as the which part of the hive they prefer. 

  I closed the hive up for a few hours.  Went back in at 4pm. Lots of brace comb at tops of frames, and surprisingly, lots of bridge comb from frame to frame, filled with honey.  I have never seen this in any book, youtube video, or tutorials online.  Not sure what to do about it. This bridge comb is just in the middle of the frame. 

You won't even find it in most books.  Bridge and burr comb are the bees way of making the most out of a given space, supering is the way we prevent it, as it is the excess in the hive.  Sans a super burr and bridge comb is a normal occurance.

It obviously breaks when I lift a frame.  (Deep frames of honey are much heavier than I thought they would be - think I'm going to get a frame handle tool)  Anyway - continuing with my story. Took a while to finally pry the top hive body from the lower one.  Moved the top one off. 
my gosh that thing was heavy! Massive propylis and burr comb on top of frames in lower body.  I worked on it until the swarm was just livid. 

And the longer you work the more aggitated they become.  Sometimes it's best to quit and come back in a few days to finish the job.  This especially true on abandoned or neglected hives.  When I was 14 I got stung 379 times from such a hive....I learned my lesson.

I could see 3 frames on one end had zero wax drawn - not what I was expecting.  I did NOT get ANY frames on the bottom loose, pulled/inspected.  I reassembled the hive and figured I prob need to leave them alone for a few day before I go back and cause more trauma.

Again the 3 untouched frames on one end indicates the bees are not orientated to that side.  Are those frames the same materials as the other frames?  A difference in material will also cause bees to neglect certain frames.  To correct that, come spring, move the 3 frames into the center with drawn frames on each side.

I'm open to advice, you won't hurt my feelings.  Hoping to hear opinions on what to do if anything about the bridge comb with honey that stretched between frames.  My idea was to try and cut it off fairly even with rest of capped honey, and catch it in a bowl.  Do several frames. Put the frames back, and put the bowl in front of the hive.  Figure the girls will collect it up and take it back in, and that they will clean up all the spilled honey inside and recap, hopefully correctly this time.  I'm not going to do that though until I get a bit of feedback.

Feeding a hives honey back to them is okay, but watch for robbing.  If you have other hives within a couple of miles of your hives the others may be attracted by the honey you're feeding back to your bees.  If the feeder is too near your own hives that will set of robbing.  It is best to eith feed internally or so distance away to prevent this.  If feeding internally, always, reduce the entrance to the hive being feed to discourage robbing.

One last thing - never, never in all the pictures and videos that I have watched have I seen as many bees as are in my hive.  I mean, literally, when I got the top cover off (not inner cover there) there were so many bees across the top, it was truly hard to count the number of frames to see if there where 10 there.  And when I removed the top hive body and got to the bottom one, it was almost the same, but not quite.  Maybe 10% less.  On the frames I pulled, bees were falling off everywhere, and sliding the frame back in, ditto, bees were getting raked off.  Is it too late to add a medium super? Maybe they just need more room?

Sorry for how long this was,I hope many of you will enjoy reading it, I hope atleast a few will pitch me your thoughts.

Dane

Sounds like you have a good productive queen with productive bees.  If they make it through the winter, I feed then split them in the spring.

[timjea]

Thanks for the input, I'm feeling more confident now.  I left them alone for several days and went back in it today. (84 deg, low wind, bright day). They were much more tolerant.  I really was just being nosy (symptom of a newbie), and trying to inspect what I got.  Its plasticell foundation, maybe they like it maybe they don't, who knows for sure.  I sprayed a bit of sugar water between the frames on the foundation that has no drawn comb to see if that would entice them to work those frames more.  We'll see.  At this point I feel very confident they have more than enough honey to survive the winter, so I think I'll place a reducer, and then focus my attention on additional wooden ware, and planning for a split in the spring.  hive #2 woohoo!!

Dane