Small Cell question

[LocustHoney]

If is small cell is a good defense against mite control, then why did all the feral bee colonies die out due to the varroa mite???

[LocustHoney]

If small cell helps against mite control then how come all the feral bee colonies died off due to the varroa mite??

[Mici]

If small cell helps against mite control then how come all the feral bee colonies died off due to the varroa mite
due to varoa, and overgrazing and home issues (chainsaw) other pesticides and the list just goes on.??

they didn't:D

[Scadsobees]

I'm still finding feral colonies....

Rick

[CBEE]

While we dont have near as many ferral bees as we used to they are still there. As far as I know they have never actually been able to pin the decline 100 % on veroa around here. More likely a combination of several different things.

[Kirk-o]

The wild bees are flourishing here
kirko

[Understudy]

Okay,

Lets me step carefully into this quagmire. And it is a quagmire.

You ask a great question.
Don't ever do anything like that again(sarcasm)
It upsets the balance and asks for reason and logic to be applied to a situation. (somewhat sarcastic).

My non scientific answer is basically this. Varroa had an effect on some feral hives. But not as many as the brain surgeons would have you believe.

Here is what is going on. Varroa entered Florida in 1987(and that year is up for debate) and spread across the US. Leaving in it's wake a mountain of decimated domestic hives and a good amount of feral hives. However we need to look at the feral hives a bit more carefully.

Domestic hives had no real way to deal with Varroa due to standard beekeeping managment at the time. Cells are larger. Drones are trapped by queen excluders and a myriad of other reasons. Those domestic hives were hit hard. Now domestic hives cast off swarms. Those swarms found homes in the wild and become feral hives. Since there is no real human intervention in their lives.

Now feral swarms from domestic hives that have not had a long time to regress and requeen themselves and bred with feral drones don't do well. They get overwhelmed by Varroa and die.

Now hives that have been around for a while. Have established themselves in a wild enviroment and regressed. Didn't do so badly. But a hove that is well established in the wild is just that well established. And it's not like every feral hive is going to end up being a cut out.
They hide well.  The problem is people think a feral hive is the hive that just moved into the soffit of their house.

So in a nutshell swarms from domestic hives didn't do so well with Varroa. Recent feral hives may have had an issue also. Wild well established hives had no real issues.

So you will read these articles that say 75% or more of feral colonies destroyed by Varroa.
And it's true if you limit it to the small area that was studied. However that will not be an accurate representation of the overall picture.

The feral bees survived and will continue to do so.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[LocustHoney]

Just want to set the record straight.... I am going small cell and all these "beekeepers" here are saying, what for? You don't believe that will help anything do you?? I couldn't think of any quick answers so I walked away from the question. So then I KNEW where I WOULD get the answer. Here. Thanks for the explanation Brendhan. Now I feel more prepared for such situations.

[mudlakee]

This is my first year for bee's in a long time and I am going small cell, If it works great what do I have to lose. Please keep making post and I will also. This could be intresting I see you live where it is warm most of the time, I live where 40 degrees is warm. Right now it is 20 degrees and the wind is blowing 40 mph. Good luck  Tony 

[Understudy]

Just want to set the record straight.... I am going small cell and all these "beekeepers" here are saying, what for? You don't believe that will help anything do you?? I couldn't think of any quick answers so I walked away from the question. So then I KNEW where I WOULD get the answer. Here. Thanks for the explanation Brendhan. Now I feel more prepared for such situations.

Tell your beekeepers that small cell means less use of chemicals. Chemicals cost money. Less chemicals means more profit. Beekeepers may not understand small cell they do understand $$$

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[Michael Bush]

>If small cell helps against mite control then how come all the feral bee colonies died off due to the varroa mite??

If I had a dollar for everytime someone asked that question...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#feralbees

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#feralbees

[Understudy]

Is it just me or are we havng a double post issue?
Neps GF photo and the small cell question

Sorry for the threadjack

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[Jerrymac]

Yep. There be two.

[LocustHoney]

Thanks for removing that other one. I posted one and my computer said that it timed out and that I needed to re-enter it. When I did there were two. Sorry.

[Brian D. Bray]

If is small cell is a good defense against mite control, then why did all the feral bee colonies die out due to the varroa mite???

To make the statement that all feral hives died out due to mites is neither scientific or logical.  There are still a good number of feral hives in the wild and more seem to be developing.  Although mites (amoung other things) resulted in a large die off of feral hives, they were never fully eradicated and to infer otherwise is mere supposition.  Scientists should know better, but they can't help advocating that feral hives disappeared totally because it helps them get research grants (It's a self-serving proclomation).  The bees are developing mite resistance and the feral hives are developing it at a much faster rate than managed hives because they do not get any intervention.

If you want mite resistant bees search out feral bee trees and capture their swarms.  I think leaving feral hives alone and just harvesting the swarms will help develop more mite resistence.

[LocustHoney]

I agree with that!

[limyw]

Feral bees swarm more frequent as no beekeeper removes thier queen cells. They also move more frequent as their hives are easily destroy by wind, heavy rain, bird, broken branch etc. So once they move, they leave combs that already infested by varroa. This reduces the varroa population in the colony started with new home.

[Understudy]

Feral bees swarm more frequent as no beekeeper removes thier queen cells. They also move more frequent as their hives are easily destroy by wind, heavy rain, bird, broken branch etc. So once they move, they leave combs that already infested by varroa. This reduces the varroa population in the colony started with new home.

Removing queen cells does not prevent swarming.
Varroa are more commonly carried by drones which can freely move between hives.
When a varroa enters a hive it is looking for open cells preferably drone cells as they are larger and take longer to cap. They then set up shop in the new hive. While drones are prefered. Worker cells will work. The difference with feral hives is that they are capped in a much shorter period of time. Thus preventing the Varroa from overwhelming the hive.

Standard practices in beekeeping meant for a larger cell size for workers. This takes longer to cap. And gives the Varroa more time to establish itself in the hive. If the Varroa is able to find itself with a abundant food source it breeds more frequently. Until such time as it has overwhelmed it's food source and then destroyed the hive.

While feral hives are subject to the mother nature issues you mentioned. I am not sure as to how much of a factor they are in preventing the spread of Varroa. There are plenty of well established hives in the wild that have been in place for years and yet are not overwhelmed by Varroa.

Sincerely,
Brendhan