Author Topic: small cell (Read 18391 times)

Kirk-o · « **on:** April 08, 2007, 11:44:41 am »

Oh Boy a New place on the forum.This is a place for people who use no chemicals and small cell like mother nature.When I first kept bees in the 70's there were no Mites.When I started keeping bees in 2000 I learned about mites.I also learned
that all the Feral bees(90%) of them had died out.I also learned that there were al kinds of chemicals and treatments being tried by beekeepers.I also learned that you couldn't get bees from Sears any more and it was difficult to get them thru the mail.

This is what I discovered even with chemicals my bees died Queens I ordered Failed,and there were Feral Bees everywere.

When I went to Arizonia and I stoped at a rest stop Bees all over the desert bush that was in Bloom.I started stoping randomly Bees Bees Bees out in the most harsh areas.I have concluded that wild bees are doing good without mans intervention.These bees have small cell and are free of chemicals do they die yes but that is part of mother natures place the strong make the weak don't.
I also realized that the mites aren't leaveing there here to stay so it is important to have Mite Resistant bees.I don't give them pollen sub either I have a pollen trap so I can get some to feed my bees the real stuff.
I think over the last 50 years the number of beekeepers has went down and there are larger beekeeping companys who move there bees many times I think this is stressful for bees.
I also discovered Michael Bush's web page and the organic beekeepers web page and Beesource web page very helpful.

I really had good luck with the unlimited beood nest I read about on Michael's Page.

I have had my success increase 20 times since doing small cell I have feral bees now two more swarms this week.

I hopethis helps answer any questions about small cell or post some

I'm not going to debate with anyone this is just what I foud works for me .If you use Chemicals thats your business I'm not interested.I just feel if Bees have to depend on man and his chemicals the bees are doomed.
kirk-o

Understudy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2007, 12:53:59 pm »

I love how small cell is this reveloutionary idea. If you leave the bees alone this is the size they will regress to naturally.

Sincerley,
Brendhan

Kirk-o · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2007, 01:40:44 pm »

When you use small cell they become smaller.When I went to Arizona and went out in the Bee Yard with Dee Lusby it was Obvious they were smaller.I put Duct
Tape over the vents of my Hat so the bees would not get in.I have two Nuc's
from Arizona already small.I have one cut out that was small and put with small cell I have two swarms this week put on small cell one hive that I have for three years in progress to small cell and a package in the mauil for Monday the ninth of April.The other big thing that helped me succeed is Unlimited Brood nest.When
I went into Dee Lusby's bee yard two weeks ago the hives were a 4 deeps already.She suggested I add two box's . I did that .The cut out I hived in 1st of Jan is really doing great need to remove honey and add some more box's
kirk

Michael Bush · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2007, 01:52:48 pm »

>I love how small cell is this reveloutionary idea. If you leave the bees alone this is the size they will regress to naturally.

But letting the bees build their own comb and take care of their own problems in their own way IS revolutionary. Just bring the subject up on any bee board and see how much it threatens the established concepts.

Kirk-o · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2007, 02:09:33 pm »

Oh Yes small cell is "alternative beekeeping" Mother Nature has been doing Alternative Beekeeping for a trillion of years.The Feral bees are doing good without mans help.

"Its not about honey its not about money its about survival" Charles Martin Simmon

"everything works if you let it" Michael Bush

There is a lot of people surviveing off of the sale of chemicals .This is a vested interest.

Small cell all the way

nepenthes · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:47:36 pm »

WE live in the Rx era, prescription every thing for some thing. Our mishandling with Drugs in our own lives have affected our other hobbies.

Why cant the companies produce small cell foundation? Or is it a conspiracy we found out that big business new all about and wanted to market drugs and antibiotics for every thing? JK but you get my point.

Hurray for new sub boards!

Michael Bush · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2007, 07:50:59 am »

>Why cant the companies produce small cell foundation?

Dadant is and Brushy Mt and Better bee are stocking it. Probably a few others as well.

Cindi · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2007, 07:59:10 am »

I use quite a few of the Pierco plastic foundation, are they small cell? I never got the gist of this. Best of the beautiful day, good health. Cindi

Understudy · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2007, 08:04:22 am »

Quote from: Cindi on April 09, 2007, 07:59:10 am

I use quite a few of the Pierco plastic foundation, are they small cell? I never got the gist of this. Best of the beautiful day, good health. Cindi

No, they are not small cell.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Kirk-o · « **Reply #9 on:** April 09, 2007, 09:21:10 am »

Hi Guys when I went to Arizona to get some nuc's Dee Lusby gave me 20 sheets
of small cell she makes chemical free stuff.It is dark in color I also get from Brushy Mt
kirk-o

Dane Bramage · « **Reply #10 on:** April 09, 2007, 05:46:26 pm »

small cell foundation for deeps. Is this the only outlet? ~> http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/products.asp?pcode=275CR
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/products.asp?pcode=278CR

I need to do some research on switching over from large cell as the first five (5) frames I've received are all large cell (via commercial apiary). Any recommendations on best large->small cell conversion approach appreciated in advance. :)

tillie · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2007, 05:55:03 pm »

Read everything on Michael Bush's web pages

http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

And go to Beesource and read Dee Lusby's writings under Point of view.

Linda T

Mici · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2007, 06:52:34 pm »

i'm in the same situation as you, so..after thinking about it..went with starter strips, like Tillie. gotta open them up tommorow to see how they drew the first few. plus, with starter strips you get the WHOLE bee familie, not just the little bees neither just the large bees, you get everything!

Robo · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2007, 07:02:20 pm »

Quote from: Dane Bramage on April 09, 2007, 05:46:26 pm

small cell foundation for deeps. Is this the only outlet? ~>

http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=288
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?osCsid=800eb698c9f5c367d7768be2a4b1c8d0&search_in_description=1&keywords=4.9mm&osCsid=800eb698c9f5c367d7768be2a4b1c8d0&x=3&y=7

And don't forget about the fully drawn (instant regression) option
http://www.honeysupercell.com/sblog/

Michael Bush · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2007, 08:40:53 pm »

>I use quite a few of the Pierco plastic foundation, are they small cell?

Small cell is 4.9mm or smaller.

Natural: 4.6 to 5.1mm
Turn of the century foundation: 5.05mm
Lusby foundation: 4.8mm to 4.9mm average 4.83mm
Dadant Small Cell foundation: 4.9mm
Honey Super Cell: 4.9mm
Wax dipped PermaComb: 4.95mm
Mann Lake PF-100 and PF-120: 5.0mm
PermaComb: 5.1mm
Pierco foundation: 5.2
Pierco deep frames: 5.25
Pierco med frames: 5.35
RiteCell: 5.4mm
Standard Worker: 5.4 to 5.5mm
7/11: 5.6mm
HSC Medium frames: 6.0mm
Drone: 6.4mm to 6.6mm

>small cell foundation for deeps. Is this the only outlet?

Dadant makes it and sells it. Brushy Mt and Better bee sell the stuff Dadant makes.

Kirk-o · « **Reply #15 on:** April 09, 2007, 08:45:50 pm »

Thank You Michael you are simply Superb with your understanding
I use deep 4.9 from Brushy but cut in half or make strips
kirko

BenC · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2007, 10:09:05 pm »

Quote from: Kirk-o on April 08, 2007, 01:40:44 pm

it was Obvious they were smaller.I put Duct
Tape over the vents of my Hat so the bees would not get in.
kirk

Yes, they are smaller. I kept getting stung and finding that bees were climbing down my face, couldn't figure it out. In my case, a caulk gun was closer than the duct tape and fixed my hat vents right up :-D

Quote from: Kirk-o on April 09, 2007, 08:45:50 pm

I use deep 4.9 from Brushy but cut in half or make strips
kirko

I've never had any luck with little ( < or = half sheet horizontally) starter strips, always ended up with a nightmare-in-a-box (and yes, the boxes are level). I think I tried everything possible to guide them. I'm still too cheap to be comfortable using a full sheet however, so I started cutting sheets in half, but from corner to corner. I placed the 1/2 foundation frames in the boxes so that the wedges of foundations alternated from end to end. It worked out nicely :). When I decided to investigate small cell, I found that the foundation was very expensive so I naturally continued the practice of cutting foundation. Basically everywhere ther was foundation, it was drawn perfectly, and where the foundation stopped they drew a gradual transition to larger cells in the lower opposite corner. I've got a little bit of drone cells on nearly every frame I prepared this way, it's all down in the corner. Some frames were even drawn small throughout.

Kirk-o · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2007, 11:53:17 pm »

O K Buddy do what works for ya
Kirko

Mici · « **Reply #18 on:** April 17, 2007, 02:43:29 pm »

small cell this, small cell that, starter strips and a whole other bunch of stuff...
i'm regressing my bees and they're quite infested with this darn varoa. i'm gonna sugger them to help 'em, if that won't do, i'll go for harder chemicals, can't help it.
anyway what i wanted to know is, how affected can the bees be from my "neighbour" bees? everyone around here say that you have to treat your bees this and that way and at the end, everyone add "don't forget to tell your neighbour beek to do the same"
so even thou i'll have regressed/small bees can they be overrun by varoa from my neighbour? coz i'm really surprised, i did not have almost any varoa last fall, when i treated, at least not many fell off, but now at least one hive is quote infested!

now tell me all you SC beeks, are you "alone" in that area?

tillie · « **Reply #19 on:** April 17, 2007, 02:57:12 pm »

IMO the worst thing you can do is to treat chemically....try the powdered sugar for three times about 10 days apart and then do a count. Do the powdered sugar when most bees are in the hive - I try for the early morning before many are out foraging. If you get your bees regressed and it takes a long time to do this - more than one season - the smaller size, faster emerging should defeat the varroa mite - see MBush's writings on this as well as Dee Lusby on BeeSource.

Linda T