Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?  (Read 6486 times)

Offline armjr

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2023, 12:34:53 am »
Thank you all for the great response.  I?ll try and give the manufacturer a call in the morning.  I?ll email the county agent tomorrow as well.  You guys have given me a lot of useful information. 

I really do miss keeping a few hives. I used to look forward to the Guajillo flow every year to get that wonderfull light honey.  Working the few hives I had was a very calming activity.  Those little girls could sense the slightest agitation and certainly wouldn?t tolerate being rushed. 

One day I was helping a friend load some hives he was moving from one ranch to another and my end slipped and I dropped it about 1? onto the truck bed.  Out they came looking for revenge.  I?m not real sure about how many times I got stung but it was way more than was comfortable? I didn?t swell up then, but the next time I got stung (on the wrist) some days later, my hand swelled up so much I couldn?t even use it.  The time after that it was worse.  I figured I was just a matter of time before I got one on the neck or head and that was going to be a major problem.  Benadryl stops the swelling but it?s not fun at all until then.  I keep dozing off while typing.  I guess I?d better hit the sack.

Alan

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4357
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2023, 12:59:33 am »
I've had bees for 5 years, and I swell up almost every time.  It's just part of it for me.  I always wear a full suit, and I've been using plantain more this year because I can't stand how drowsy the Benadryl makes me.  I didn't get stung much late in the season this year, so I'm not sure, but I think my reactions are started to get a little better.  Or maybe I'm just hoping.  :embarassed:

I love working my bees too.  When everything is going well, it's almost meditative.  I know I would miss them terribly if I couldn't have bees anymore.  Maybe you'll get another chance at a swarm next season.  :happy:
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline animal

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 968
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2023, 10:35:26 am »
Hey,
Do you have any success rates from people that have actually used Dominion 2L on the pine beetles with the goal of saving the tree?

I checked with several tree guys and all of them use Bifen except one that uses Permethrin. Claimed success rates vary, but usually low. None of them bother trying it unless it's an ornamental or yard tree. Timber, they cut the tree and it's neighbor trees and sometimes spray the perimeter of the affected area. A few try to salvage the wood for the mill depending on where it is, how much it is, and other things. Some chip the bark on the popcorn spots to try to get the poison in deeper, all soak the ground close to the tree. They must do it heavily because one mentioned a cost of about $40 per tree in poison (and these guys buy the big jugs) just to try it.

Anyway, please post the results of whatever method and chemical you use. There are some tree guys in MS who are very interested.
Avatar pic by my oldest daughter (ink and watercolor)

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4357
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2023, 03:53:46 pm »
I did notice that on the Dominion label it said that trees under stress from boring beetles may not recover even after application, which didn't sound promising.

Bifen and Permethrin are both pyrethroids, so they aren't systemic, which makes them much safer for bees than a neonic like Dominion.  Pyrethroids last weeks, not months, in a plant, so using them in winter (if it's cold enough that bees aren't really flying where you live) would be quite safe for pollinators.  As to whether they will work or not I can't say, but they are certainly the safer choice for bees.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline armjr

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2023, 08:33:11 am »
Well, I kinda dropped the ball Friday? I went fishing instead of taking care of business (making calls)? Caught some crappie though(10).  The Dominion 2L and a gallon of permethrin was delivered from DoMyOwn.  I?ll start with spray applications of Permethrin while I continue to research the effects of the Dominion 2L.  I may do a drench on the one tree that is affected the worst. 

Alan

Offline animal

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 968
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2023, 11:22:05 am »
Good luck ...

Fishing isn't dropping the ball. It's mental preparation  :cool:
Avatar pic by my oldest daughter (ink and watercolor)

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12257
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2023, 11:29:00 am »
Good luck ...

Fishing isn't dropping the ball. It's mental preparation  :cool:

X-2. I agree!!!   :grin:   And Crappie to boot!! Yum!!
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4357
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2023, 01:31:28 pm »
10 crappie is worth way more, definitely a better use of your time.  :cool: 

I think that's fair, to use the Dominion on the worst tree and the pemethrin on the rest.  I agree that contacting the manufacturers would be a good idea still, but I think that sounds like a pretty good plan as far as mitigating the risks for the bees while still doing what you can for the trees.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline animal

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 968
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2023, 06:13:23 pm »
If we're talking about the southern pine beetle ...

https://www.mfc.ms.gov/forest-health/forest-pests/southern-pine-beetle/#:~:text=Life%20Cycle&text=The%20southern%20pine%20beetle%20has,as%20nine%20generations%20per%20year.

Personally, I would either nuke them with whatever I thought would be most effective(including combinations thereof after checking if they can be tank mixed), or get a jug of bar oil and mix some fuel. If all trees are affected, chances are the chainsaw will get some use unless you caught things really early.

Permethrin is "hotter" than bifen. Faster kill and doesn't last as long. Think gasoline versus diesel if it were a fire. You may have to spray more often with it.
Avatar pic by my oldest daughter (ink and watercolor)

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13460
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2023, 08:17:21 pm »
Arm,
I received some Pine Bark Beetle training at a land owners meeting this year.  I recommend that the first thing you do is call your local ag agent. They have expert that can determine which of the main 3 species that you have. Each is different and damages the trees in different ways. The first thing he will do is peal off some bark to determine which one you have.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline armjr

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2023, 11:10:02 pm »
I contacted Ag Extension agent.  He recommended permethrin and had no opinion on the drench.  My BIL has a Doctorate in Agronomy and works with corn and cotton and has some experience with Dominion 2L.  His opinion was that if used improperly it would very adversely affect pollinators but using it as I described would have minimal affect on bees et al? So, I drenched all the trees with the lowest recommended dosage and sprayed with permethrin.  The one tree most affected was nearly all brown and was getting worse daily.  I don?t know how long it takes for a pine tree to transpire enough to get poison into the phloem or how quickly the permethrin works, but, the browning stopped.  There are several little green limbs still hanging on? So, I?m going to declare a small bit of success.  The bees are still working the Mexican heather, probably their last flow, such as it is, before spring.  We?ve had several days of rain with clearing on Tuesday and Wednesday.  I?ll hit them again with permethrin then. 

Thanks for all the responses.  I really do try to use pesticides as little as possible.  This was one of those times when it just had to be.

Alan

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4357
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2023, 01:23:18 am »
Thank you for being a responsible pesticide user.  We beekeepers really, really appreciate it.  Keep us updated on how things go with the trees, and of course if you end up catching a swarm in the spring.  :wink: :happy:
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline animal

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 968
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dominion 2L, Termidor and Bees?
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2023, 01:37:05 pm »
Did you identify the species of beetle?
Avatar pic by my oldest daughter (ink and watercolor)

 

anything