Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production  (Read 3025 times)

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7

Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production



https://youtu.be/0EOBInjCt-Q
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline BurleyBee

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2022, 07:15:22 am »
I played with singles last year and really like them if you time them right.  Worked really well with early March splits:  grew them into a double, then right before Tallow hit, moved queen down, excluder and super.  I?m still trying to figure out how much brood to leave behind on hives I?m splitting before the early flow (privet).  Currently 3/4 of my yard are singles now. 
@burleybeeyard

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2022, 11:17:29 am »
Sounds like it is working for you Burley. It seems many folks from the North prefer singles. Being you are from the South do you find draw backs considering location and temperature? In other words do you have problems with them getting low on stores in late winter or early Spring since the bees may be more active through these periods in warmer climates?

Phillip
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline BurleyBee

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2022, 01:02:15 pm »
I let them get as heavy as possible in the Fall then check mid January for stores to see if I need to emergency feed.  As you know, some bees are more frugal than others.  Anxious to see how my Carnis look.
@burleybeeyard

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2022, 02:06:42 pm »
Burley I hope your bees prosper! Keep us updated please Sir.

Phillip
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline BurleyBee

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2023, 10:31:02 am »
Been feeding the singles up the past couple weeks.  Looking great and all of them got a 2nd deep yesterday.  Been pulling doubles back and using that brood to boost some of the smaller singles. 

@burleybeeyard

Offline 2Sox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2023, 11:12:58 am »
This wasn?t Bob Binnie in this YouTube you attached. It was Frank from Mann Lake.

It was pretty clear that this was all about ?how to maximize honey production? ? which is not a bad thing in itself. But I didn?t hear anything about doing what?s best for the bees. And if profit is what motivates a person who raises bees, I guess this was a good video.

From my own experience, most beekeepers I?ve known ? aside from commercial guys - don?t see their bees as economic profit-making machines.  They have too much respect for that and didn?t start this to make money. Again, really disappointed that nothing was said here about what?s good for the bees. (And there were many statements made that were far from accurate.) Common knowledge that HFCS and sugar is not. It?s not good for us either (I admit I have a wicked sweet tooth.) I also admit I have fed my bees syrup and I always felt bad when I did. I don?t anymore.

I leave the bees plenty of honey for the winter ? and I know a lot of guys do the same. And if it cuts down on how much honey I get, so be it. Emergency feeding is a different matter entirely. But if a beekeeper leaves enough honey, this shouldn?t be necessary. So what! if some frames are crystallized at winter?s end. This is what happens in the wild and the bees know what to do with it. And if you want, you can take some of these out to give to new swarms you catch.

I know a lot of guys who work their bees similar to how I work them. I don?t use excluders, I use all mediums, and I let the bees build wherever they want to. I harvest one frame at a time when they are ready. I extract several times during the season and I get different varieties and colors of honey that my customers love. Works for me.

Question: I?m not clear on the purpose of isolating one box for brood rearing.  Is it so that the honey usually found in the brood box is placed by the bees above in the supers? Are we doing all this for those few extra frames of honey to harvest? Seems to me to be a perfect storm for LOTS of swarming.

This was a great video for me to learn what others do - and for me to affirm what NOT to do.
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 20022
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2023, 12:09:59 pm »
I don't use deeps, but if I did, a single 10 frame deep is not enough for a full size cluster to winter here.  A small cluster might do fine if it was reasonably strong and had plenty of stores.  I overwinter in eight fame mediums and a full size strong colony needs to weigh about 120 pounds total in order to not starve.  A single deep is never going to weigh that much.  But a smaller cluster of frugal bees (Carni, Russian, Caucasian etc.) might do fine in that much space.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2023, 12:53:12 pm »
Quote
This wasn?t Bob Binnie in this YouTube you attached. It was Frank from Mann Lake.


Your right, though Bob did post the video on his channel, I should have worded it:
Bob Binnie (post a video of Frank) Discussing Single Story Colonies For Honey Production.

Different 'methods' of keeping bees along with different 'points of view' by doing so, 'can and has' been discussed and debated thought out the beekeeping community world wide. There is always room for more discussion and debate.😊 Such as excluders or no excluders, single brood or double brood, and many other factors 'can, has, and will' continue to be discussed as it is healthy for the beekeeping community.

Honey production is certainly a good incentive and reason to keep bees.  Be it a one colony hobby beekeeper who enjoys the reward of not only keeping and handling his or her bees, but especially enjoys reaping the benefit and reward of honey produced at harvesting time.😊:  The same can be said of giants among the beekeeping community such as Ian Steppler, or many others who keep bees in single brood colonies.

Does it not stand to reason the beekeeper who takes the maximum care his or her bees, will stand the better chance of obtaining the maximum amounts of honey production? Folks keep bees for different reasons I suppose. The reward of honey produced is usually a strong consideration for many beekeepers, though I have read of the 'one' exception, (a member here posted some time back of keeping bees simply for love of keeping bees) who cared not if they produced honey; and if this makes them happy, I think that is great too! 

I think it is fair to say there again, anyone who keeps bees must undoubtedly 'love to do so'; But must also love the bee itself? There are surely easier ways to make a living than being a honey producing beekeeper.  Beekeepers who make a living by doing so must take special care, the best care is given, if they expect to stay in business. The love of the honeybee by folks such as Bob Binnie, and folks like him, can only expect Maximum Honey Production by Maximum and the best of Care-Taking of The Honey Bee... IMHO

Phillip
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 01:24:05 pm by Ben Framed »
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline 2Sox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2023, 01:01:04 pm »
Devan Rawn makes an excellent case in this video. Economics and profit are not mentioned as the motivator.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjyNcyVvbEI
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2023, 01:26:18 pm »
He does, I have posted that video here before. I use to look forward to each video he put out. He slacked off some time ago with putting out videos and I lost track of him.

Thanks for posting this 2Sox.. Good stuff!

Phillip

PS as a side note: If I remember correctly he has a really good video of larva stages as well as grafting. Bob Binnie also has a great video about grafting with close up pictures..
« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 05:42:55 am by Ben Framed »
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline 2Sox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2023, 01:44:24 pm »

I think it is fair to say there again, anyone who keeps bees must undoubtedly 'love to do so'; But must also love the bee itself? There are surely easier ways to make a living than being a honey producing beekeeper.  Beekeepers who make a living by doing so must take special care, the best care is given, if they expect to stay in business. The love of the honeybee by folks such as Bob Binnie, and folks like him, can only expect Maximum Honey Production by Maximum and the best of Care-Taking of The Honey Bee... IMHO

Phillip
[/quote]

Well said, Phillip. Thank you.
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2023, 02:22:32 pm »
Thank you 2Sox,  I always look forward to your post..

Phillip
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline BurleyBee

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2023, 12:12:18 pm »
The colonies I kept over wintered in singles were late summer splits.  They got fat on goldenrod flow to end the season.  I don?t really understand the logic of a single being bad for bees?  These singles looked fantastic.  Also,  I don?t understand the logic of feeding being detrimental to the bees, especially if you?re using sucrose syrup.  There?s a lot of information on how feeding sucrose syrup to bees is actually good for your bees.  I?ve heard several beekeepers and researchers speak of how feeding a sucrose syrup encourages levels of hydrogen peroxide to increase in the colony, which creates an antiseptic condition.  Studies have even shown H202 being higher in nectar samples closer to young brood.

I understand everyone does things differently.  :wink:

« Last Edit: February 15, 2023, 01:17:53 pm by The15thMember »
@burleybeeyard

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2023, 01:24:34 pm »
Hi Burley, My opinion is I basically agree with what you say about singles.  I think you and I have, (as well as others), have discussed this subject before on other topics.
My only concern of singles in your area as you are further South where the bees are more active in the Winter months, which will require more food. You have overcame that issue. Your earlier post along with pictures has demonstrated as much.

I appreciate you sharing information you have gained by studies and by experience on this subject, which works well for you.  You, your post and thoughts with gained knowledge are always looked forward too. Keep up the good work!

Phillip
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 20022
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2023, 01:27:04 pm »
Here is a study that shows that bees live longer on honey than sugar syrup: http://www.resistantbees.com/fotos/estudio/feeding.pdf
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2023, 01:35:36 pm »
From that report:

Based on our research, it can be concluded that feeding with different food sources has different influence on the digestive tract of bees, especially in the midgut epithelial layer. Natural source of food for bees - honey had no harmful effects on the midgut epithelial layer, and the intestinal contents were completely attached to this layer, which leads to the quality of digestion and maximum nutrient resorption. Similar results were got when feeding bees with 'sugar syrup' 'and' 'enzyme inverted syrup' without the addition of yeast and malt.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2023, 02:02:21 pm by Ben Framed »
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 20022
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2023, 02:01:59 pm »
From the study:
Table 1. Average life span of bees (days) in three years of study
Feed type      life span of bees days
                    1st yr 2nd yr 3rd yr x
Honey          26.55  29.46  25.15  27.05
Sugar Syrup 20.52  26.32  18.90  21.91

The ones fed honey lived 20% longer than the ones fed sugar syrup.  Or put another way, the ones feed sugar syrup lived 80% as long as the ones fed honey.  Not trivial and it is statistically relevant.

My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13052
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2023, 05:35:45 pm »
Quote
The ones fed honey lived 20% longer than the ones fed sugar syrup.  Or put another way, the ones feed sugar syrup lived 80% as long as the ones fed honey.  Not trivial and it is statistically relevant.

No doubt honey is the best source of food for bees. It's the bees that make it for that purpose. Little doubt bees would live as long on such a limited diet 'alone' for three years straight as was the case in the experiments. Including bees fed SS or EIS alone or any of the other 12 different food options, (honey being the 13 and main option), which were given accordingly in this 'three year study' as shown in table 1. Even though the Conclusion of the report might be seen as a little fuzzy.

Now, sugar water was given to the designated experimental colony or colonies, set aside for sugar water only, for three years, while transferring a few of these bees from these, designated by food experimental hives 'as needed' for research and data "In controlled conditions, by using 48 mini laboratory cages with capacity of 150-200 bees each," in the same three year study.  This can also be said of the other bees mentioned in table 1 in that same study which were only given one type experimental food or another, (as 13 different foods were given in table 1 for each individual line of study), for that same time frame.

As I understand it, Burley has been feeding sugar syrup for the past two weeks as a 'food supplement' to aid in buildup of his colonies; as he described them, "they were fat from goldenrod last fall".
In 'his' location bees will soon be bringing in pollen and nectar if Im not mistaken. In fact I think he said pollen was already coming in?  For his program using singles and his desire to stimulate early build up, I can see where sugar 'supplement' is a plus..






« Last Edit: February 16, 2023, 01:12:09 am by Ben Framed »
Matthew 10:16
16.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 20022
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Bob Binnie Discusses Single Story Colonies For Honey Production
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2023, 07:45:20 am »
I'm certainly not against feeding when it's needed.  Bees with food live longer than bees without food by quite a bit.  This study is just comparing honey to sugar syrup, not honey compared to nothing.  I've bought a lot of sugar in my life to feed to bees.  I actually don't use sugar otherwise.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

 

anything