Fair and balanced, my rumpus......

[Acebird]

Lord Fauci has been irrelevant for decades.  He finally got a chance to jump on the stage again and blew it from the start.  He has no business being the highest-paid idiot on the government payrolls.  He got everything wrong.

Well of course you have the credentials to make that judgment. LMAO

[salvo]

How Ya doing Turd Bird?

Blah, blah, blah. That's all you got lately.

You're a bit of a conundrum. I remember (what few of your posts I read and remember) how you commented and explained things to us that were helpful and actually pleasantly informative. That video of your "Label Jig" was a great example. That's not typical liberal behavior, sharing your own knowledge. I think that was you. It was a lloonngg time ago in dog years. Maybe I mis-remember.

But now,... even in General you get morbidly dour. You seem to be in a hell of your own meanness.

IDK!

Anyway. If you publicly apologize for using the T word, I'll stop also. Let it go.

And lighten up. You're smarter than that.

Sal   

[Kathyp]

Well of course you have the credentials to make that judgment.

I have followed him long enough to know that he's a bit of a publicity hound.  He hasn't had a good disease to put him out front for a long time.  COVID was a gift to his ego.

I also watched him get everything about COVID and our response wrong for a couple of months and it was mainly because he was paying more attention to WHO and not to what was actually happening around the world.  A lot of people had to adjust their reactions as more info came in.  He was lagging in doing that.  Even the guy you hate was ahead of him and shut down travel to Wuhan.  Meanwhile, Fauci was telling people to go on cruises and have Tinder sex. 

Not a good look for the highest paid federal employee. 

[Duane]

But along the same lines, has the science been done?

I am not one to take the word of the press.  What I do know is that the tech for this kind of vaccine is not new. 

As wikipedia would say, reference?

Yes, they've used them on animals.  What was the result.  Have "you" read the research?  Can you link it here?

Here's the thing that most people don't understand.  it usually takes years and billions of dollars to get anything through the FDA process.  No company is going to develop something that is not going to make back that profit unless they are subsidised as with the Orphan Drug money.

You do realize they have absolutely no liability.  If you aren't going to look at the real science, then ask yourself, why are they immune to lawsuits if they are safe?

Except we can test this with most vaccines.  We know that there were places that were slow to get the polio vaccine and have had polio in their populations long after it was pretty much eradicated in our population.  As the vaccine is made available, the polio is gone. 

We also know that polio cases were going down before the vaccine was released.

We also can do things like antibody testing to prove that vaccines work.

Prove?  But we don't have to look at the science to know?  Do we know that antibodies mean protected? 
I don't know that.

So yes, it is science and it is how science is done. 

It starts with a theory, then development/action, then testing, and if it holds up to all that it is true.  If it doesn't hold up, it is still science, just science sent back to the drawing board. 

But didn't you just say science is just looking at correlations?  So why do real tests?

I'm just trying to get you to think critically instead of assuming belief.  What if Fauci is lying to you as you indicated he did once?  Should you put blind trust in someone who you think is an authority?

Or more so, should you put blind trust in drug companies who rushed years ahead to create a vaccine that acts differently than all other vaccines, tricking your cells to allow a trojan horse to enter and cause them to manufacture proteins that is foreign to your body?  And all that with only emergency FDA approval, and no accountability to the drug company?
And you still have to wear a mask, and still considered to transmit the virus?
Hmmmm......

I suggest looking at real science reports rather than the media.

[Duane]

The people you should trust are the people doing the work. 

Should we trust the people or their work?
Lancet retracted a paper because neither the people nor the work proved trust worthy.  Actually, Lancet proved untrustworthy, a rarity.

So what happens is there is a spokesperson within the science community (like Fauci) who tries to explain the science to the general public.

How do "you" know Fauci is trustworthy?  Is he qualified to read these scientific studies?  Does he even have the time with everything he's trying to do?

This is what we have to put are trust in. 

But if you are not reading the science, then aren't you putting your full trust in one person, Fauci?  Or the media?
[/quote]If you are glued to one source you most assuredly are being dubbed.[/quote]Yep.
Hence my request, read scientific papers on the matter.  It really isn't that hard.

Some scientists say one thing, some say another.  So then what do you do?  Do a count and go with the highest vote?
Why not read for yourself?
Some papers will do all the tests, show graphs saying one thing, say in the results, but yet in their conclusion say, even though the results don't show...., we recommend.....
Media grasps that, and say scientific study shows ....
But it doesn't.

[Duane]

Otherwise, if you don't read the papers, don't know what science says, then it is only your opinion.  And you can't object to someone else's opinion who formed it looking at other media or other "authorities".

Is there not anyone around here who reads scientific studies on beekeeping?
If so, why not on something that is going to seriously endanger your health in deciding for or against what the media tells you?
Better inform yourselves using real science.

[gww]

Duane
What are you trying to say?  You say don't trust those that do the work and then say read it for your self.  The only way you will be satisfied is if you invent it and test it your self.  If you have the time go for it.  Polio was going down?  It was always seasonal but did not disappear till after the vaccine.  Spend all your time on your studies if you want. 

I am going to rely on the science being done by others and also the fact that millions have been given and every day that goes by gives more info.  It is easy to object to a person who can come up with a reason to be negative if his negativity can not be satisfied by any means and is based on nothing meaning anything.  Again, unless you are the one doing the work, it can't be trusted but you should read every ones work?

There may be issues and answers but with as many getting the shot, those will come out and I will be basing my decision on life and history up to this point against the risk of killing my wife and parents by trying to get every one to question and not take the shot.

 Even 1918 when the vaccine really didn't work like they hoped, it did not make things worse.  Many children safely got polio while on their mothers milk till we got better sewage and less exposure early enough and getting it later was bad.  Now they just don't get it.

I have to have a little faith cause I read a lot of bee studies and to tell the truth, they have not really changed my bee keeping but are interesting.  But I don't plan on trying to read every single one of them just so I can keep bees.  Wouldn't have time to keep bees if I tried and don't intend on dyeing from covid while trying to read all of those vaccine studies. 
Cheers
gww

[Acebird]

Why not read for yourself?

Because 90% or the population of the globe does not have the expertise to make judgment.  That is why there are pier reviews from people that do.
Do you research a plane before you fly in it?  Do you research the elevator design before you get in it or a building before you walk through it?  How about a bridge before you drive over it?  Something's are better left to those with the expertise.  You can't know everything.

[Kathyp]

Duane, you seem to have some issues with this vaccine.  I don't know you.  Maybe you have issues with all vaccines.

I don't want to get into a link slinging thing with you because on this, I think people have to do their own research and do what makes them comfortable.

So that we are clear in future conversations I will share my position on vaccines.

I am on the edge of the generation that saw people dying and damaged by things that the majority of living Americans have never seen.  We no longer have a deaf/blind school in every community because pregnant women are now protected from German Measles.  We don't have iron lung wards, or kids dragging around in leg braces, because we don't have polio.  You don't see smallpox scared faces in anyone under the age of 60 and from this country.  Parents don't have to freak out every time their child gets a cough, because they don't even think about whooping cough anymore.

Those diseases are not all gone, but in well-vaccinated populations, most people will never see them. 

I do think we over vaccinate and that we probably give children too many too quickly.  While there is no reliable data to show this is a problem, it is also a relatively new development. 
Just because we can vaccinate for a thing, do we need to?  Probably not.  Chickenpox, as an example.  It's a PIA for kids, parents, and schools, but not dangerous for the majority of kids.  Adults?  They might want to be vaccinated if they never had it and shingles is not only painful but potentially dangerous. 

Do your research.  Do not get caught in confirmation bias.  Make a decision. 




 

[Duane]

Duane
What are you trying to say?  You say don't trust those that do the work and then say read it for your self. 

Actually I was saying I do trust those who do the work over those who falsely say what those who do the work say.

  Again, unless you are the one doing the work, it can't be trusted but you should read every ones work?

No.  Just don't trust those who say what to believe of those who did the work.  Could they be lying?

But I don't plan on trying to read every single one of them just so I can keep bees.

But if someone who is a self proclaimed expert says everyone must keep bees a certain way because scientist did a study, would you consider reading that study?  Or determine if such a study was done?

[Duane]

Do you research a plane before you fly in it?  Do you research the elevator design before you get in it or a building before you walk through it?

I would not fly in it if they admit they haven't finished testing it, requires everyone to have parachutes, don't know if it will remain in the air, and have never landed it.

[Duane]

Do your research.  Do not get caught in confirmation bias.  Make a decision. 

But what is "research".  What I hear several saying, research is listening to the media.  And believing what they so want to be true.  That's what I'm objecting to.

If I'm allowed to make a decision based on reading scientific studies, and you're allowed to make a decision listening to the media, it's a free world.  At least it used to be.  But I object when the average person doesn't even verify if a study has been done, what the study says, and yet wants to force me to do such and such.  If more people did real "research" into what science actually says, the media wouldn't be so likely to run away with itself.  Lord Fauci wouldn't be Lord Fauci.

I guess it came as a shock to me that people aren't interested in reading science papers.  Surprise, huh?

[gww]

Duane

But if someone who is a self proclaimed expert says everyone must keep bees a certain way because scientist did a study, would you consider reading that study?  Or determine if such a study was done?

I run into all kinds of self proclaimed experts who are more that willing to say I am keeping bees wrong.  They may even have some merit in their critique of my methods.  I am convinces that everybody could improve but I set my standards for myself and am happy.  I have read many things that I am sure might help me someday if I decide I need that help bad enough.  I read a lot due to just interest.  But, I keep my bees like I do and am happy enough so far even if I could improve.  I do rely on others work cause I am convinced that I don't want to do it.

I did take your post as not trusting those who were actually doing the work.  About that, I will say that those doing the work can have biases and preconceived notions before doing the work.  Still.  I have little choice cause I am not equipped or willing to do it myself.  So, I just look around and do my best to weed though it.  I am comfortable that if nothing else, I will be in the same boat as everyone else that takes the vaccine.  For some that would not be good enough but using my life experiences up till now, it is good enough for me.  I am closer to kathys age and thought her post covered my thoughts on the matter very well. 
Cheers
gww
Ps  I personally think fouchi is doing his best with good intent from the medical side of things. 

[Acebird]

Lord Fauci wouldn't be Lord Fauci.

He is not Lord Fauci he is Dr. Fauci.  Maybe you should do some research on the man before you try to make fun of him.  Had you done some research on Trump you might better fit the term "Lord" to him in jest.

[Kathyp]

I guess it came as a shock to me that people aren't interested in reading science papers.  Surprise, huh?

I don't think this is true.  Not sure who you think is not interested.  Like everything else though, you can read 20 studies and get 10 different opinions. 

He is not Lord Fauci he is Dr. Fauci.  Maybe you should do some research on the man before you try to make fun of him.

I have.  Lord Fauci seems accurate enough.   

[Acebird]

I have.

Where did you get your doctorate?

[Kathyp]

Where did you get your doctorate?

Do you need one to evaluate errors and behavior?  He's been wrong more than he's been right.  Every time we think things are starting to get a little normal, he comes out with something like his 3 mask crap, or "No, we can't get back to normal and maybe not for another year".  It gets his mug on TV and he obviously enjoys that.

Look, the guy has done some good work in the past.  He's enjoying his last hurrah.  Unfortunately, if his advice is ever taken, most of us can't enjoy our life...except a few months ago when he was telling people to go on cruises and have casual sex.   

[iddee]

"Where did you get your doctorate?""

You wouldn't ask that if you knew who Kathyp is married to. I won't post her private info, but I think it would surprise you greatly.

[Acebird]

"Where did you get your doctorate?""

You wouldn't ask that if you knew who Kathyp is married to.

Does that qualify Melania to be president?

[Acebird]

Where did you get your doctorate?

Do you need one to evaluate errors and behavior?

You need that and more to judge one that has ten times the credentials and accomplishments.