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Author Topic: OA treatment mite count  (Read 532 times)

Offline NCNate

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OA treatment mite count
« on: December 23, 2020, 09:18:51 am »
What would you consider normal for a mite drop after and OA treatment this time of year?
I treated my 3 hives and after 24hrs had 40 in one and 60 ea in the others. My Dad treated one of his and had over 300 in 24hrs.
I've not seen a 24 hour count that high and told him he should wait a week and give them a second dose on the next decent day. Does that make sense as long as he waits for a day around 50 degrees?

Offline Brian MCquilkin

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2020, 03:12:24 pm »
I deal with the mites in August and do a final round  OAV in December when they are bloodless.
Counting the mite drop tells me that the OA is killing the mites, but won't tell me how many are still alive and what level of mites I have. An alcohol wash gives me better results.
Despite my efforts the bees are doing great

Online Ben Framed

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2020, 04:02:10 pm »
Nate I am probably not telling you something that you do not know, but in case, Oxalic will not kill mites which are under capped brood. They are sealed and protected.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2020, 04:57:09 pm »
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The pic is approx 2 inches by 3 inches with about 100 mites on a bottom board.  The white stuff is diatomaceous earth.  This photo taken 24 hrs after treatment with Oxalic acid vapor: one gram per 10 frame langstrof deep.  The total mite drop was very high, my guess 800-1000 mites on bottom board.  This was a non-hygenic hive, obvious from the pic.  My hygenic hives might have 40-60 total mite drop.

With above in mind, your question regarding mite drop is highly dependent on:
1.  the hygenic qualities of the hive
2.  previous treatments
3.  mite virulence or reproduction as one may define.
4.  time of year.
5.  Hive stress:
     Dearth
     Disease
     Error by beekeeper
     Beetles
     Pesticides and such
6.  Hive density: recent swarm, or split, robbing
7.  Percent, number of cells of capped brood.
The fewer mites the better in all cases.  Health to your bees.

Cheers

Add:  I have not posted much lately, been very busy with stuff.  Just want to say happy healthy holidays to all my BeeMaster friends, in US, across the pond and down under.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 06:32:04 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2020, 11:43:01 pm »
Dadant has a interesting article on using a single OAV treatment to calculate the mite load in a hive. The information is near the bottom of the second page of the article. I'm on my fourth year using an oxalic wand vaporizer and my experience tends to agree with their findings. Just performed a full course of 6 treatments during the last two weeks of November on my hives.                                                                                                           
                                                 

https://www.dadant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/2011/09/Dadant_OxalicAcidVaporizer_QandA.pdf



Offline Brian MCquilkin

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2020, 01:33:20 pm »

https://www.dadant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/2011/09/Dadant_OxalicAcidVaporizer_QandA.pdf
Dadant states in this article that you must remove the supers or put a barrier between the brood nest and suppers. I always leave the supers on with no barrier between the brood nest and suppers.
Despite my efforts the bees are doing great

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2020, 04:30:02 pm »
I'm not sure if pulling the supers before treatment is needed or not since it's been shown oxalic acid disperses and is removed by the bees within two or three days. It's an FDA recommendation which is why they have it in the article.

If I treat during the summer with a honey super on I just crack open the hive between the brood box and honey supers and slip in a sheet of metal during the treatment.

 Ill do one treatment as a mite count with honey supers on but for an extended course of treatments I isolate the brood box with the metal sheet or pull the honey supers.

  Down here in Florida the season is so long I have to treat in October after the Brazilian Pepper flow and late February before the Saw Palmetto and citrus starts.

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2021, 06:08:14 pm »
I'm not sure if pulling the supers before treatment is needed or not since it's been shown oxalic acid disperses and is removed by the bees within two or three days. It's an FDA recommendation which is why they have it in the article.

If I treat during the summer with a honey super on I just crack open the hive between the brood box and honey supers and slip in a sheet of metal during the treatment.

 Ill do one treatment as a mite count with honey supers on but for an extended course of treatments I isolate the brood box with the metal sheet or pull the honey supers.

  Down here in Florida the season is so long I have to treat in October after the Brazilian Pepper flow and late February before the Saw Palmetto and citrus starts.

BeeBoy, is the name Port Orange real.  Sounds like the (name) area is made for honey bees, I think of the orange groves that must be a dream come true for honey bees: citrus flowers as far as the eye can see.  Going to be a while before my bees see any flowers, like March if favorable weather prevails.

Cheers
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2021, 08:55:43 pm »
Yeah, Port Orange is real but is slowly turning into just another overbuilt stretch of coastal Florida. I'm about three miles south of Daytona Beach and can hear the races at Daytona International Speedway when they run. I'm lucky living about 15 miles inland on a wooded 2.5 acre property but am seeing the orange orchards turning into developments as citrus greening decimates the orange trees. My main honey crops come from Saw Palmetto, Cabbage Palm and Brazilian Pepper.

  The remaining orange orchards are father south inland and already have pollination set up with the commercial guys who are very protective of their areas. I've driven through miles and miles of orange groves while blooming and am amazed as just how strong and beautiful the fragrance is. In some places the trees look white with blooms.

  There are stories of hives getting burned or poisoned when placed in the wrong areas so I stay in my little pond. I'm happy where I am and get a good honey crop every year which is all I can wish for.
 
I'm dealing with an extended warm dry spell right now and I've already heard from other beekeepers about hives in the area that have run out of resources and either crashed or absconded.  Nothing is in heavy bloom, maybe some Spanish Needle scattered around but it's pretty barren. Already have maintenance feeders on two of my hives and plan to start feeding the rest by mid month. If it's another warm winter like last year things will start popping by mid February. Need to get to work in the shop and overhaul a lot of equipment, got a little lazy last year and am paying the price now catching up on box and frame repair. LOL

Not sure why but last year was a battle for me in my yard. With the early buildup I started some early nucs that didn't make it then I ended playing catch up till mid summer. Ended with the same number of hives I started with but went the long way around the barn to get there. Planning on picking up an Italian nuc or two for some fresh genetics this year for something different.

Van and everybody else hope you year was good and 2021 will be better for you all.

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2021, 11:58:19 am »
What would you consider normal for a mite drop after and OA treatment this time of year?
I treated my 3 hives and after 24hrs had 40 in one and 60 ea in the others. My Dad treated one of his and had over 300 in 24hrs.
I've not seen a 24 hour count that high and told him he should wait a week and give them a second dose on the next decent day. Does that make sense as long as he waits for a day around 50 degrees?

Yes, go ahead and retreat them.  Its nice when its a bit warmer and the bees are loosely clustered but its not a perfect world, just treat them.  Recheck the drop and continue to treat with OAV until the numbers get lower (every 5 to 7 days).  The problem with a target mite drop number is all the variables, all clusters are different in size, location, amount of brood, etc.  So the best we can do is use are best judgment, if the numbers are a lot less after a series of treatments you did good and probably saved your bees.   
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Offline JojoBeeBoy

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Re: OA treatment mite count
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2021, 10:01:14 pm »

With above in mind, your question regarding mite drop is highly dependent on:
1.  the hygenic qualities of the hive
2.  previous treatments
3.  mite virulence or reproduction as one may define.
4.  time of year.
5.  Hive stress:
     Dearth
     Disease
     Error by beekeeper
     Beetles
     Pesticides and such
6.  Hive density: recent swarm, or split, robbing
7.  Percent, number of cells of capped brood.
The fewer mites the better in all cases.  Health to your bees.

Cheers

Add:  I have not posted much lately, been very busy with stuff.  Just want to say happy healthy holidays to all my BeeMaster friends, in US, across the pond and down under.


Hope everyone has had a wonderful holiday season as well !  :)

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