Why Trump should not be reelected

[Ben Framed]

Because senator cruz is a constitutional laywer, he knows the courts is where stuff has been addressed.  He knows the states send the certified delegates counts.  He knows what is supposed to happen with those by the constitution.  He is not the only constitutional laywer that has weighed in on this part of the constitution.  He is not consistent on his stand of state rights based on situational gain or loss meaning even knowing he does not care.

The question back to you is, if you heard cruz, than you surely herd the other testimony from those countering his points.  A dumb guy like me can not be considered a better communicator that those other testimonies.
Yes, he is one of the worst cause though he is smart, he is trying to use that smartness for evil.  He is so smart that he knows what he is doing which makes him more guilty than somebody who is being manipulated by what he does.
Cheers
gww

No, You have yet to answer my question. Which will now be the third time. What part of Senator Cruz statement was unconstitutional during the hearing of the vote? Reminding you to please be clear. I would hope you would support your claim stating his questions and suggestions are unconstitutional. That's all gww, I am not asking you to build a space rocket. Simply support of your claim.




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[gww]

Ben
I don't have to jump at your beck and call when you have not believed even the things pointed out and always go back to which part is untrue. 

You know, michael bush says, it was peaceful where he was and than throws in that right wing media was reporting that maybe antifa was there.  From that point forward, the lie is out there for those who are dying to believe.  Michael did not tell a technical lie but now the belief is going to be that antifa did it.  It will not matter at that point of belief that the girl that got killed was a trump supporter of that there are several photos of right wing internet heros sitting in pelosi's chair and walking around in the capitol.  The only thing going to be latched onto is the lie by those who apparently need the lie.

Micheal bolton just called cruze a liar on national news and you want me to make you believe it.  I probaly can't and have not been able to on any other point.  In the end.  I don't mind discussing this with you but am smart enough to know the real audience might be others that read this stuff.   

I am not smart enough and am too lazy to retain or search for direct answers on call.  My mind does not work in that fashion but I listen to it all and give value to all that is said, kick in my bull crap meter and can come to the whole truth and do not have to rely on is this very little one thing true or not.  I see you are not built that way.

Cheers
gww

[Ben Framed]

Ben
I don't have to jump at your beck and call when you have not believed even the things pointed out and always go back to which part is untrue. 

You know, michael bush says, it was peaceful where he was and than throws in that right wing media was reporting that maybe antifa was there.  From that point forward, the lie is out there for those who are dying to believe.  Michael did not tell a technical lie but now the belief is going to be that antifa did it.  It will not matter at that point of belief that the girl that got killed was a trump supporter of that there are several photos of right wing internet heros sitting in pelosi's chair and walking around in the capitol.  The only thing going to be latched onto is the lie by those who apparently need the lie.

Micheal bolton just called cruze a liar on national news and you want me to make you believe it.  I probaly can't and have not been able to on any other point.  In the end.  I don't mind discussing this with you but am smart enough to know the real audience might be others that read this stuff.   

I am not smart enough and am too lazy to retain or search for direct answers on call.  My mind does not work if that fashion but I listen to it all ang give value to all that is said, kick in my bull crap meter and can come to the whole truth and do not have to rely on is this very little one thing true or not.  I see you are not built that way.

Cheers
gww

I had company come in and didn't have time to edit which I have now done. Re read

[gww]

Ben
I will just say that the protest part of the constitution was taken out of context by cruze as his claims being proper under it explained by multiple sources that have just as much as a constitutional lawyer pedigree as cruze does.
Plus my first statement above on position switching which points to nothing meaning nothing.  Plus more if I ever decide it is worth working my fingers so hard.
Cheers
gww

[iddee]

"You stated that it was a mockery of human intelligence that a black man could be voted in in preference to a white woman, and that the vote was similar or the same to the vote between two white men.""

That is totally false. I said there was no way that two races that diverse could possibly come out that close in both, with the same party winning, unless it was planned that way in advance, and it would be a mockery to human intelligence to think anyone would believe. I only named the members of the diversity, with no reference to any attributes of any of them.

No, you shouldn't have PM'ed me. If you misconstrued my post that badly, others may have, too. It needs to be out in the open to get the truth out.

[Ben Framed]

 In case anyone might have missed Senator Cruz Statement during the vote.
 
"We gather together at a moment of great division, of a moment of great passion, we have seen and no doubt will continue to see a great deal of moralizing from both sides of the isle. But I would urge to both sides perhaps a bit less certitude and a bit more recognition that we are gathered at a time when democracy is in crisis. Recent polling shows that 39% of Americans believe the election that just occurred quote "was rigged". You may not agree with that assessment but it is nonetheless a reality for nearly half the country. I would note it is not just Republicans who believe that; 31% of independence agree with that statement 17% of Democrats believe the election was rigged. Even if you do not share that conviction, it is the responsibility I believe of this office to acknowledge that is a profound threat to this country, and to the legitimacy of any administration that will come in the future. I want to take a moment to speak to my Democratic colleagues. I understand, your guy is winning right now. If Democrats vote as a block, Joe Biden will almost certainly be certified as the next president of the United States. I want to speak to the Republicans who are considering voting against these objections. I understand your concerns but I urge you to pause and think what does it say to the nearly half the country that believe this election was rigged if we vote not even to consider the claims of illegality and fraud in this election. And I believe there's a better way. The leaders just spoke about setting aside the election let me be clear I am not arguing for setting aside the results of this election. All of us are faced with two choices both of which are lousy one choice is vote against the objection and tens of millions of Americans will see a vote against the objection as a Statement that voter fraud doesn't matter isn't real and shouldn't be taken seriously. And a great many of us don't believe that. On the other hand most if not all of us believe we should not set aside the results of an election just because our candidate may not have prevailed. And so I endeavor to look for door number 3; a third option and for that I look to history. To the presentment of 1876 election The Hayes/Tilden election where THIS Congress appointed an electoral commission to examine claims of voter fraud 5 house members 5 Senators 5 Supreme Court justices examined the evidence and rendered a judgement. And what I would urge of this body is that we do the same, that we appointed an electoral commission to conduct a ten-day emergency audit consider the evidence and resolve the claims.  For those on the Democratic isle who says, say there is no evidence they've been rejected; Then you should rest in comfort if that's the case that an electoral commission would reject those claims. But for those who respect the voters, simply telling the voters go jump in a lake the fact that you have deep concerns of no moment to us that jeopardizes I believe, the legitimacy of this and subsequent elections the Constitution gives the Congress the responsibility this day to count the votes the framers knew what they were doing when they gave responsibilities to Congress we have a responsibility; And I would urge that we follow the pretense of 1877 the Electoral Account Act explicitly allows objections such as this one for votes that we're not regularly given. And let me be clear this objection is for the State of Arizona but is is broader than that. It is an objection for all six of the contested states to have a credible objective impartial body hear the evidence and make a conclusive determination. That would benefit both sides that would improve legitimacy of this election. And so let me urge my colleagues All of us take our responsibility seriously. I would urge my colleagues don't take perhaps the easy path; But instead act together, astonish the viewers, and act in a bipartisan sense to say we will have a credible and fair tribunal consider the claim to consider the fact consider the evidence and make a conclusive determination whether and to what extent this election complied with the Construction  and with Federal Law."   Senator Ted Cruz
 

[gww]

Ben
What is the normal percentage in every election that people think it was rigged?  How much has that changed with people like cruez and the pres. using their high profile platform to spread misstruth?  Spreading it even before the election happened.  What is the percentage of the population believe the moon landing was faked or the earth is flat?  How many believe 911 was known before it happened?

Spreading false hoods could have increased this belief.  Its like a big circle, you spread it and use the fact that people become interested as a reason to spread it.  Why is cruez not picking the moon landing to investigate?  A percentage of people believe that.

There are always mistakes in elections cause elections are so big but fraud is different.  Grahm said they told him they had thousands of dead voters and he ask them to show him ten and they showed him one.

It was a lie that he said he was not trying to change the election but his answer to the investigation was to hold up the count.  He was lying cause both can not be true.

It was the wrong format for his protest under the constitution.


In 1877 they had two gov in some states and recieved two sets of delegates from the states and that was why the protest part was in the constitution.  The result was a jim crow south.  Not the same as what happened now.

The electoral collage picks president based on a vote of the people, not congress.  The times for protest is in the constitution.

Believe what you will but posting his statement will not make facts not facts.
Cheers
gww

If he was telling the truth and it was not attached to changing the election results than it will only be a some time for hearings and such for all those doubters.  Not Violating the time lines of the constitution will have no impact on the truth. and so his claim of his intent does not ring true at all.  Changing the election requires proof by a certain time and for good reason, we would never get a president if they could just keep filing frivolous law suits.

[Ben Framed]

Ben
>What is the normal percentage in every election that people think it was rigged?

I do not know. I am sure there are always questions of irregularities in any election. This election is quite different. Never has alleged fraud been reported on such a large scale as this election with such a magnitude according to many who keep up with such things. As Mr Binall put it, "our phones never stopped ringing" The reports are overwhelming in numbers as well as sworn statements. Reports of Republicans viewers locked out of talling rooms not allowed inside until filing suit in some situations. Then when finally allowed inside corralled behind gates as animals in some cases. Reports of Cardboard placed on windows. Insubordination of chain of command, ballots being pulled from beneath tables and ran through the machines after republican watchers and news officials were told to go home for false reasons yet when the remainder of democrat counters right back to it for hours as been reported. Also reported to being captured and recorded by video of the cameras of the counting room. Why wouldn't  so many Americans of each party have so many questions of this election? As Mr Bush so graciously pointed out the above reasons. Not to mention the alleged shredding of votes. Questions which deserved to be looked into, not ignored as Senator Cruz plead to American Senators and Representatives in the voting meeting for the good of America. Allowed by the Constitution may I add. 
Here at beemaster alone several points of questions, Starting back a few a topics here in the coffee house. Questions concerning the mysterious doings and goings on of this election on election night. Sawdstmkrs' topic for example: (Michigan voter exposed). A good place to start for those which may be interested in trying to learn of concerns. The place where I first remember hearing of voting machines being in question. After the mysterious halting of vote counts on election night, about the same time. And remember the machines were not legally allowed to be connected to the internet. So was it an accident that this happened at six key swing states and almost the same time? Not in just one key state but several.  NEVER have I heard of such until the reporter from Brazil chimed in to America with a heads up. Reply 3 same topic: Michigan voter fraud exposed. An actual eyewitness-reporter form Brazile who witnessed the same strange happenings throughout several South American countries and also reported more questions there in Michigan where he was also an eyewitness. Reply 3 of the same topic. When this came up. I checked for accuracy it was already public information. Everywhere; Big News; except ignored by the leftist news stations. Independent news along with some majors. The whole time main stream was telling their viewers it was bunkum; imagination of the republicans. You on the right do not question keep your questions to yourself; (or in Ted Cruz words, "go jump in the lake").
In reality, I concentrated of just two questions here on this topic. Questing Mr Binalls statement as wanting to know if it is true; and Mr Pulitzers' statement to Fulton Co Georgia seeking to know if his statements are true as well. Both witnesses made very good points in my opinion. I could easily go on and on. With other major questions. At the present time I have no desire.

[gww]

The questions are being promoted by people with a big platform and an intent to manipulate as many as possible.  Of course you all are going to hear a lot.  I hear a lot and then put it in context to how the world really works knowing everybody on all sides had an agenda.  Then comes the smell test put in context to our form of government.  Over all, once past my natural distrust of every one, the left has it more correct if a person gives a crap about facts compared to fantasy.  The biggest problem with you guys being so strong on your beliefs and out side of the facts are going to be the back lash causing laws to be passed for more control.  If you can not recognize the facts than the over kill response coming becomes easier to justify and then all suffer.  Just like 911 and now I have to use my birth certificate and proof of mailing address just to get a drivers license so I could even take just a domestic flight.  Get on a list and I could be banned with out even knowing is until I try and fly (which I don't intend to do).  It did not used to be that way and we did ok.
I could go on but that is the cause and effect of things.  Then the new stuff never goes away.  At least if you were going to make a fight of it. Pick something you are right on so the backlash is at least worth it.  My view is that those not recognizing the facts are going to make things over all worse and I hate those twisting the facts worse just to manipulate perceived personal gain.
Cheers
gww

[Ben Framed]

>The questions are being promoted by people with a big platform and an intent to manipulate as many as possible.

From all we have discussed you still stand of such a statement? I can not speak for people "with a big platform and an intent to manipulate as many people as possible". By their continued "go jump in the lake attitude" you could easily be describing the left. What news station did you hear that from or get that idea? Or is this the way you "put it in context" in your own thinking, which equals you personal opinion? The fact that Mr Pulitzer has sworn he could have settled these important questions, of ballots and the paper in which they originated barcodes voter signature and so forth and so on in only hours and down to the very last ballot disproves your theory. You and America had everything to gain. Both sides would have won either way. A giant first step in bringing Americans back together again and healing. In a way a politician could have not have done. I say it is those which will ignore just this one fact, this one piece of evidence being Mr Pulitzer himself being that evidence is he who is living in fantasy, either that or totally scared the actual facts may come out showing the left they may been lied to by their media.. To clarify; meaning any news outlets that did not go along with their claims. Or could it simply be many despise truth, choosing to dispose of truth or snuff truth out if it does not suit their own purpose. I will once again just for fun remind you what Fletcher told the Senator in the movie The Outlaw Josey Wales, something about his back and telling him its raining.

> Over all, once past my natural distrust of every one.

I am sorry to hear that. There is one you can trust.

>The biggest problem with you guys being so strong on your beliefs and out side of the facts are going to be the back lash causing laws to be passed for more control.

I can't speak for "you guys" I can speak only for myself. My two main questions were legitimate though they may be inconvenient to you. That is why we have a first amendment. My questions are just as important as you desire to shut me up. Actually my questions are more important, Under our present Constitution and protected by such.

> At least if you were going to make a fight of it. Pick something you are right on so the backlash is at least worth it.

I have had two main questions, that seem to scare the dickens out of you as you have fought these basic two questions tooth and nail. Now you have forced me to ask yet another with your Ted Cruze and 5 other Senators claim.

> My view is that those not recognizing the facts are going to make things over all worse and I hate those twisting the facts worse just to manipulate perceived personal gain.

In my opinion this debate plainly exposes those who wish to ignore the obvious questions, twisting the facts. Including my three questions to you in this debate. To be clear, Two; plus the Ted Cruz question.
Notice I kept using the past tense, as your man has won legitimately or not. We may not know the real truth until the Day of The Lord. It would have been good for our nation if the stubbornness and rejection of Mr Pulitzer would have been laid aside and truth made manifest.


 

[gww]

Ben
Your questions and the fact that your questions are the only thing you look at end up being good for continually keeping the lie going.  I got a question for you.  Was it antifa that stormed the capitol?  Was the reporter that reported that to the whole world telling a lie?  Well, was he?  You like posting the exact thing over and over in the same thread.  Maybe every time you do. I will post this.

Joseph Goebbels: On the ?Big Lie?
|
Biography
|
On the Jewish Question
?If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.?

From you

By their continued "go jump in the lake attitude" you could easily be describing the left. What news station did you hear that from or get that idea?

Your attitude is the same by only caring about one thing however as I said earlier, there is the fact and there is misleading and on this subject looking at both, the left is winning the fact battle.

The election is run by the state, the supreme court addressed the issue of the machines before and after the election. Trump was in a position of power to change the rules on the machines and can not claim ignorance on knowing about them.  The constitution has rules and time lines.  Trump had plenty of resources to address this if he could come up with legitimate Proof. 

The election is over and biden is president.  Your guy has forever to prove this wrong and in four years, perhaps you will not be so easily impressed by these multiple posted videos' of your.  As I said before, nobody can make you see past what you want to see.  You are welcome to be blind by choice.  No, I don't know everything and yes I could be surprised but not by any video or others statements in this thread posted by you.  The same ones in multiple places.  You talk about the left, Only about 39 percent of the right believe what you are showing means what you are implying. That is unless you are saying cruez is lying in his statement.  That is less than half of the people who voted for trump.
It might take a little longer for the rest with those that keep spreading junk that won't meet the slightest burden of proof in a real court of law.
Cheers
gww

[Ben Framed]

Ben
Your questions and the fact that your questions are the only thing you look at end up being good for continually keeping the lie going.  I got a question for you.  Was it antifa that stormed the capitol?  Was the reporter that reported that to the whole world telling a lie?  Well, was he?  You like posting the exact thing over and over in the same thread.  Maybe every time you do. I will post this.

Joseph Goebbels: On the ?Big Lie?
|
Biography
|
On the Jewish Question
?If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.?

From you

By their continued "go jump in the lake attitude" you could easily be describing the left. What news station did you hear that from or get that idea?

Your attitude is the same by only caring about one thing however as I said earlier, there is the fact and there is misleading and on this subject looking at both, the left is winning the fact battle.

The election is run by the state, the supreme court addressed the issue of the machines before and after the election. Trump was in a position of power to change the rules on the machines and can not claim ignorance on knowing about them.  The constitution has rules and time lines.  Trump had plenty of resources to address this if he could come up with legitimate Proof. 

The election is over and biden is president.  Your guy has forever to prove this wrong and in four years, perhaps you will not be so easily impressed by these multiple posted videos' of your.  As I said before, nobody can make you see past what you want to see.  You are welcome to be blind by choice.  No, I don't know everything and yes I could be surprised but not by any video or others statements in this thread posted by you.  The same ones in multiple places.  You talk about the left, Only about 39 percent of the right believe what you are showing means what you are implying. That is unless you are saying cruez is lying in his statement.  That is less than half of the people who voted for trump.
It might take a little longer for the rest with those that keep spreading junk that won't meet the slightest burden of proof in a real court of law.
Cheers
gww

I am happy to see that you read my post of Mr Cruz Statement. I am pleased that Mr Cruz was so clear that you could understand. As you know, I have posted nothing I have not been able to support with back up and references as I have constantly done. Be it a video in Mr Pulitzers case or a statement in Mr Binall case or Mr Cruz case. You have yet to specifically reference any thing you have posted and claimed as disproof of my claims, except a 40 page report with no specific reference, only making hollow claims and accusations. I find it useless to go past two or three questions with someone who constantly filibusters, with unsubstantiated in attempt to disallow my claims. I will give you credit though, you are good at is accusing


PS Good night gww. I am sleepy. lol




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[gww]

Ben
The 40 page thing you mention was a state supreme court ruling but I had already figured out that you did not care about any legitimate source when you can go to internet heroes.  I only posted mine in one place cause it was from a reputable source that did not have to be repeated bunches of times to give it merit with most readers.  I mentioned where you could go a few times for better info but perhaps as I have been implying since about my fifth or sixth post, you seem not to really be searching for truth but more enjoying trying to work people to death to disprove conspiracy theories rather than understand the person with the theory is the one that needs to provide proof.  You are the one that stated you believe them, not me, but you like trump, are not willing to prove them. 

Your back up statements have all been thrown out of court and you can not make your self even admit one point could be wrong.  Like does binnals statement say that none of the illegal immigrants became americans since they got their license?  You gloss over and ask "is binnall lying" but do not look at what could make his statement not mean the fraud he is claiming.  He couldn't either and that is why he lost in court. 

This is how I know you are not sincere in your pleading that I just want the truth.  You want to convince me or tear me down.  I am doing the same since a few threads in and my getting the previous mentioned feeling about you.   So now we are having a stimulating conversation for others to read and take what they can from it.  I feel good about most of what I have typed and am fine with that.  I believe enough facts are is on my side and many reading it will understand.

Since your post is mostly that somebody made a statement or video, You probably could of posted it just once or they may have seen your point from the original source with out you.   Hum, lets see, video or court ruling based on stuff from video, What should an american give credence too?

I did not think I had to post the constitution cause that is open source every where and easy to get.

Cheers
gww

Ps Your "LOL" in you Ps at the end of the post is pretty close to one of the few times I have seen you use it in a laughing with you manner.  Good for you and good for me.

[Acebird]

I am sure gww that you know for Trump and his cult facts don't really matter.  The rule of law doesn't really matter.  And the constitution is only relevant for cherry picking.
At this point Trump being reelected is a moot point he should be removed and locked up.  Let Pence have 12 days at the presidency.  Probably all he will be able to attain.

[gww]

Ace
I am not the best at following rules.  I base my decisions on how am I hurting or helping and if not hurting, even if not helping that much, I do what I want.  Picking a president by the rules of the land is one of those things that helps and not doing it that way is one of the things that would really hurt all.  It is a rule we should follow.

What is really sad is that a lot of trump supporters are going to be punished yet trump goes out yesterday and throws them under the buss in a speech (like he does every one if it comes down to him or them).  Trump, hawley, rudy and cruez and more will keep trucking like nothing happened.  It reminds me of the meat packing plant owners that go down to mexico with busses to get their work force and then it is the worker who get raided after being used and abused. 

Trump does not live by the same standard or have the same values as those that support him.

I guess if you kick a dog long enough, that dog might look forward to the kick and the kick might make him feel important..

That still does not mean that people believing they are doing the right thing with sedition are not still committing some kind of treason.

Protesting against the constitutional government is a bit different then protesting for more rights or fixes to the constitutional government.  Who would have a king?  Not me.
Cheers
gww

[minz]

There is a lot of pictures of the people that did bad things out there. Now with the cop dead they are going to parade them around in handcuffs as a public example. After loosing in GA and the Senate does anybody think he would not be impeached by the end of the month if he did get 5 states to overturn their elections?
I don?t follow politics and have been losing sleep over the events of this week. I imagine that those that really follow it must be physically sick. Just the discussion of the President being removed as being unstable or the legacy that he will have is terrible.

[cidersabuzzin]

There is a lot of pictures of the people that did bad things out there. Now with the cop dead they are going to parade them around in handcuffs as a public example. After loosing in GA and the Senate does anybody think he would not be impeached by the end of the month if he did get 5 states to overturn their elections?
I don?t follow politics and have been losing sleep over the events of this week. I imagine that those that really follow it must be physically sick. Just the discussion of the President being removed as being unstable or the legacy that he will have is terrible.

Minz, Nip down the road and see kathyp, she will probably be able to give you chapter and verse. Although she's been strangly quiet lately.

[Acebird]

Protesting against the constitutional government is a bit different then protesting for more rights or fixes to the constitutional government.  Who would have a king?  Not me.

A ceremonial king like England is one thing.  A dictator, never.
I would say pretty much everyone has broken rules.  Speeding is a given.  But few people say it is alright for me to break a rule but not you.

[iddee]

"But few people say it is alright for me to break a rule but not you.""

Unless you are a Dem. in a political position.

[Michael Bush]

We went through this in 2000 and 2001 when Bush beat Gore.  Gore challenged the vote and it went all the way to the Supreme Court.  It was heard.  The votes were recounted with observers and challengers.  Each ballot was inspected carefully by both parties and a count was made.  There was some controversy over dimples and scratches and smudges that the Gore side wanted to count as votes but otherwise it was pretty peaceful and when it was done most people were satisfied that a fair count had occurred.  Still some in the media and some Gore fans insisted that the election was stolen and Bush wasn't really president, but most of America accepted the results.  That's all we want for this election.  Examine the ballots.  A legitimate ballot from a precinct has the initials or signature of the poll workers.  Those can be verified.  The paper should be the same.  The counts from the precinct should match.  The chain of custody should be intact.  Both sides should be able to challenge.  The envelopes from the mail in ballots should have their signatures matched. The ballots should be inspected to see they are the same paper and not copies.  They should be counted with challengers from both sides able to examine each ballot.  Then check the lists that have been made of dead, underage, criminal, out of state and ineligible voters that have been compiled.  Go through the list with challengers from each side and access to databases to look these people up and check.  When you are done you have a transparent election.  That's all anyone wants.