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Author Topic: Is a TF category possible ?  (Read 824 times)

Offline charentejohn

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Is a TF category possible ?
« on: October 11, 2020, 04:18:39 pm »
Just tripped over the problem of being TF and asking a question in a section (organic and natural) that is not really best placed there.
TF is different as there are many organic compounds used that are not TF.  Fine for those who use them but muddys the water, having asked about varroa was advised to treat them, presumable OA or formic, ok but a TF section would be a help the likes of me 
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2020, 04:55:30 pm »
Just tripped over the problem of being TF and asking a question in a section (organic and natural) that is not really best placed there.
TF is different as there are many organic compounds used that are not TF.  Fine for those who use them but muddys the water, having asked about varroa was advised to treat them, presumable OA or formic, ok but a TF section would be a help the likes of me 


John if you are referring to your last topic under that heading, I will say,; f you want a new treatment free Only heading, separate from organic and treatment free combined, I?m for you if that is what you want but in all fairness in that organic and treatment free category, on your very first post, you did say:

Quote
>I was thinking of some small treatment to 'wean them off' treatments but as queens are first year they have only seen chemicals once. <

That suggestion coming from you, did not sound so treatment free to me? Is that fair?

It appeared sawdstmkr answered you along those lines of thought from your suggestion. At least that is the way I understood it?  😊   Isn?t that an unfair foul on your part? 😊.  Maybe I missed something? If so please advise. Thanks.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline charentejohn

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2020, 06:52:11 pm »
That's the topic.  The wean them off part says this and can be interpreted many ways I suppose.  What was meant was the last bit - What I have now is new workers from whatever drones were around, so best chance to do nothing I think I will get.
I thought this (and all my other TF posts) would have made sure this was what I meant, maybe not.  I thought the best chance to do nothing bit would have given my intentions.  It was, I thought, not a question but a statement else I would have said something like I may be able to do nothing.
From the previous post -
I was thinking of some small treatment to 'wean them off' treatments but as queens are first year they have only seen chemicals once.  There will be some in the foundation but they have built their own now in the warre boxes and all treated workers are long gone.   What I have now is new workers from whatever drones were around, so best chance to do nothing I think I will get.

A TF section would get around this sort of misunderstanding as it would at least eliminate the chemical options.  The other options that require frame pulling (I won't have frames eventually) are a 50/50 thing.
You must be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi

Online The15thMember

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2020, 07:24:35 pm »
I think that the reason you seem to have trouble getting quality help, John, is that there are so few people on this forum who are truly treatment FREE.  Michael Bush and cao come to mind, but other than them, I'm not sure there is anyone else who is doing absolutely nothing to control varroa.  (Sorry if I've forgotten anyone else who is being successful at this goal.)  I think the other issue is that I don't believe anyone at all is running warres other than you, and the management style is so different with a warre (since intervention of really any kind is challenging because there are no frames) that I'm not sure how much help most people can offer you that is relevant to your situation.  I don't say any of this to dissuade you from practicing your chosen style of hive management, only trying to offer some insight into why is it that no one seems to be able to provide you the help you are looking for.       
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2020, 07:29:33 pm »
Thanks John, I did not go back and look at your older post on other topics. I was specifically referring to the one you are talking about now and the words there, being it was a new topic. I do not know what the administrators will do about creating a dedicated TF section only. I agree that it might eliminate confusion? I have been posting here for about 2 1/2 years and noticed from time to time some strictly TF folks, reaching the point of being offended when a fellow member, suggesting in good faith, treating organically. Perhaps you are right, a total TF section dedicated to and for you TF folks may eliminate confusion of this type? I am just a fellow member so I have no say in this one way or the other.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2020, 07:34:48 pm »
I think that the reason you seem to have trouble getting quality help, John, is that there are so few people on this forum who are truly treatment FREE.  Michael Bush and cao come to mind, but other than them, I'm not sure there is anyone else who is doing absolutely nothing to control varroa.  (Sorry if I've forgotten anyone else who is being successful at this goal.)  I think the other issue is that I don't believe anyone at all is running warres other than you, and the management style is so different with a warre (since intervention of really any kind is challenging because there are no frames) that I'm not sure how much help most people can offer you that is relevant to your situation.  I don't say any of this to dissuade you from practicing your chosen style of hive management, only trying to offer some insight into why is it that no one seems to be able to provide you the help you are looking for.     

I agree with you Member and very well said Ms Member. I for one am for you John with TF that being your desire. I for one do not know how to help you, but as Member said there are some here that do. I feel like beemaster is a good place to be for any beekeeper, whether proffesional or strictly amature with one or two hives. There seems to be something here for everyone and someone here to help in every need. 
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline charentejohn

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2020, 05:32:19 am »
Good point 15th, I was heading to that conclusion myself.  This is a very good forum in the way it is run and the membership so no problems with that.
I don't mind if people aren't TF and don't have any help to offer, then no need to reply unless they can see a serious problem and want to mention it.  The fameous Scot Mc Pherson's video on non Tf keepers helping Tf keepers with general keeping questions and support is spot on.

I know the organic, natural and TF definitions are blurred but I do think they are a group so should probably be together.  They overlap, please no arguing the detail of this just an example of some areas.  For instance organic can relate to such as no foundation, untreated crops, OA/formic, natural can be log hives or tree hives only and TF is never touching a hive.  All things can bleed into one another most but not all log hives are TF, some natural keepers wll use foundation, TF can involve manipulation.

I often post things just to pass on information, as in this case really, and ask for confirmation.  The idea was to say I had some ideas for people to think about.
Lots of posts here are like that just saying what has happened and sort of asking if others have had the same.  Doesen't have to be from a TF person as, in this case, varroa and brood levels over winter are a general thing only difference is I won't be treating.
The points in that post were, low varroa in winter should give me similar spring numbers to the ones I had when they arrived ?  Also to pass on the thought that as totally TF bees are hard to find (even swarms could be from anywhere) the idea of starting with a first year queen, even if treated once, is as good as most people will get.

My solution is I will put TF in my heading to identify it so people can see what it relates to, I did that a couple of time previously. Putting TF will show that it is that aspect I am looking at, problem solved.
You must be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Acebird

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2020, 08:04:07 am »
Just tripped over the problem of being TF and asking a question in a section (organic and natural) that is not really best placed there.
Another forum has had a TF category and it doesn't work the way you think.  This forum is far more civil but you still will get post from people suggesting you treat.  There are very few TF beekeepers on forums so the category becomes stale.  There aren't enough post on any topic that you can't just breeze through to what you are looking for.
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Offline charentejohn

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2020, 03:04:41 pm »
I am on a few TF type groups, one group one FB and one forum.  You are right there isn't much there as it is not a place with much going on, that said I do like them as they offer information as much if not more than discussion.
From a logistics ? point of view that seems right, other forums or parts of forums have diverse things to talk about.  The, what did you do with then bees today ?  Nothing.  Becomes a little limited  :smile:  I find they are more a place, like David Heaf's, where people tend to share info for people to ponder that get a couple of comments and additional info links.

Like I say no worries though, I will just put TF or Natural in my headings in that category to identify their content so people can skip them if they want.
As an example when I have a full year's varroa info I will let people know so they can think about it and make of it what they will.  Till then ttfn on this thread as they say  :smile:
You must be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Acebird

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Re: Is a TF category possible ?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2020, 08:33:28 am »
There you go.  That is what you should do.  And if you get comments on giving up TF you can ignore them like I have.  As I said this is them most civil forum I have been on.  Good luck to you.
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