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Author Topic: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?  (Read 867 times)

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« on: October 02, 2020, 06:14:39 pm »
With COVID-19 stamping it's ugly foot, will we see a change of direction in Politics come November? A whole lot of candidates may change, giving a breath of fresh air. You never know could you see a three or more party system. I know the constitutional system is in place (queue Kathy jumping up and down) "You can't change anything" but things evolve! you aren't living 300 yrs ago.
I know I know but a few G&Ts make everything feel so simple!  :wink::smile: :cheesy: :cheesy:
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 06:37:00 pm by cidersabuzzin »
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2020, 08:25:49 am »
The only real change that would make a difference is to remove money from politics.  No parties just individuals that debate following the rules.  If you don't follow the rules you are out.  They could lay out their whole agenda on a website or public broadcast.  How ironic it is for followers that say they want law and order and support a guy that is nothing but chaos and mayhem.
Unfortunately there won't be anything new in future politics.  We have turned the corner for unity.  Animal instincts have taken over.  All we can hope for is a leader who will not embarrass us in world affairs.  Maybe some compassion for those who are less fortunate.  The last thing the US needs is another bully.
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2020, 02:40:30 pm »
It won't change a thing. 1 or 2 of the characters may change but the game remains the same.
Between Constitutional process, old traditions and the even older power of money, only death will cause any drastic difference.

This election ain't about the 2 candidates, it's about the VPs because both the Pres candidates will quite possibly leave office before 4 years ends, putting the VP in office.
A race between a Kommie and a Milktoast.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline Geoff

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2020, 07:50:06 pm »
   Is there any amendment in the US constitution forbidding more than two parties ?
Probably be like Australia with a multi party system you will get a more open voting system but no guarantees you will  get a good leader !  !
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Offline iddee

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2020, 07:52:32 pm »
NO. We have had more than 2 parties running in the last few elections. It's just that a third candidate cannot get enough voters to leave the main 2.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Geoff

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2020, 08:04:05 pm »
 
   Next question Wally, who was the most popularly elected president over the years that you were eligible to vote ? ?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2020, 08:41:35 pm »
I don't know, Geoff. I never paid much to the numbers, I was just concerned with who won.
I think the most controversial one was Carter. No one wanted to vote for him, but every one wanted to vote for a democrat after Nixon resigned.
I think he was considered even worse than Nixon once he was in.
Obama did more to segregate the people than any in my lifetime, and likely in history.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2020, 04:36:58 pm »
Not jumping up and down.  The constitution is the law, but like all laws it can be changed.  if the people want to go to a parliamentary system and get little to nothing done in the future, so be it.  They can do the work that needs to be done to change the laws.

The problem, as I see it, is that  making those kinds of changes ends up giving more power to the government and even less to the people.  We have the system we have because it was designed to be the least top down form of government that they founders could imagine.  Since the people seem to want to be ruled rather than in control of their own government, they might well want to change the system. 

See?  No jumping around required.   :wink:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2020, 10:11:22 am »
A race between a Kommie and a Milktoast.
Hmm, so are you in favor of milktoast, again without an ounce of leadership, or the one who exhibits professionalism and experience on the debate stage?  I preferred Karma over Biden to begin with but the country is not ready for a black woman as president just yet.
If a woman's right to an abortion is rescinded the numbers on the left will increase more then they are increasing now.  So the only thing the right can do is defy the constitution and deny those on the left from voting.  It is quite obvious that they have already started.
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2020, 10:31:30 am »
I lost track of how many baseless insinuations you derived from an 8 word sentence of mine. How do you do that?  It's like magic! Or like a leftist. Most egregious is your assumption that just because I am against Biden/Harris that I must be for Trump/Pence.  You couldn't be more wrong.
But, for the record, I am always against communism.
 Kommie Harris was a prosecuting attorney, very heavily trained at arguing and word-twisting. Pence was in private practice, not a courtroom attorney. Considering that the news outlets split along party lines, while a few call the debate a draw, Pence did very well.
And if you're judging her qualification to be president based on her racial makeup (part black, part Indian sub-continent, part white. Really, which part counts most?), you are part of the problem.  It's her faulty character and foul political ideology that I have heartburn with, not her mixed race.

Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2020, 03:14:56 pm »
Quote
Karma over Biden to begin with but the country is not ready for a black woman as president just yet.
If a woman's right to an abortion is rescinded the numbers on the left will increase more then they are increasing now.  So the only thing the right can do is defy the constitution and deny those on the left from voting.  It is quite obvious that they have already started.

It has nothing to do with her race or gender.  It has everything to do with her past actions and the things she has supported in the senate. 

https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-more-liberal-bernie-sanders-senate-record-analysis-shows-1524481

For myself, I was not for Trump the last time.  It was just that he was the only choice.  Hillary was a non-starter.  This time, based on his policies and judicial choices, I am for Trump. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2020, 08:13:02 am »
I am always against communism.
You are confusing communism with socialism.  They are not the same.
Communist countries have a dictator.  The population has no choice in how they are governed.  With the exception of China they end up weak countries.  But China is strong because of us.  Take us out of the picture and their economy crashes.
Socialist countries share some wealth with its population yet the wealthy still rule.  The difference is the population has some choice.  In the end socialist countries are stronger, and healthier.
Trump is far more communistic than any president we ever had.  He is following the play book of all the communistic countries that exist.
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2020, 11:33:06 am »
No, I'm not confusing communism with socialism.  Communism is just one form of socialism.  A nefarious version, to be sure.  Something which Kommie Harris, AOC, several other congress Rats, and Antifa all support.
China's economy is stronger for adopting free market reforms several years ago.  Their military is stronger because of it.  That, and because of the technical assistance handed over by other DemoRats, Clinton, Obama, etc.
Winter is coming.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2020, 09:49:46 am »
That, and because of the technical assistance handed over by other DemoRats, Clinton, Obama, etc.
To assume that we are smarter than they are is the same erroneous believe that a white man is smarter than a black man.  They focused on technology and made commitments for the long term.  We are run by corporate america which focuses on the bottom line from year to year.  If technology cannot pay for itself year to year it is not though of much.  IMO they are smarter.  Presidents and politicians have nothing to do with China's success. 
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2020, 09:53:19 am »
Communism is just one form of socialism.
So I guess Democracy would be another.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2020, 03:21:30 pm »
I am always against communism.
You are confusing communism with socialism.  They are not the same.
Communist countries have a dictator.  The population has no choice in how they are governed.  With the exception of China they end up weak countries.  But China is strong because of us.  Take us out of the picture and their economy crashes.
Socialist countries share some wealth with its population yet the wealthy still rule.  The difference is the population has some choice.  In the end socialist countries are stronger, and healthier.
Trump is far more communistic than any president we ever had.  He is following the play book of all the communistic countries that exist.

No, I'm not confusing communism with socialism.  Communism is just one form of socialism.  A nefarious version, to be sure.  Something which Kommie Harris, AOC, several other congress Rats, and Antifa all support.
China's economy is stronger for adopting free market reforms several years ago.  Their military is stronger because of it.  That, and because of the technical assistance handed over by other DemoRats, Clinton, Obama, etc.

> You are confusing communism with socialism.  They are not the same.
Communist countries have a dictator.

Is he confusing the two? If so which is worse? Let's take your country of heritage and its Socialist leader until the end of ww2. What was he a nice little Sunday School boy?

>The difference is the population has some choice. 

Do you mean like choice of the population of their fellow citizens, Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, blacks, the physically and mentally disabled, and political opponents. Yes these citizens of Germany had a choice, once their socialist power was achieved and in place, a bullet to the head or a train ride to a camp. I know some people of German descent who really love and appreciate The American way of life, which love and defend The Constitution. Sadly, many immigrants, come here pushing socialism once more. That is sad in my opinion.


The Party of Hitler
The National Socialist Program, also known as the 25-point Program or the 25-point Plan (German: 25-Punkte-Programm), was the party program of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP, and referred to in English as the Nazi Party).




For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2020, 04:53:40 pm »
Quote
You are confusing communism with socialism.

Very rarely in history has a county suddenly become ruled by a dictator.  The usual path to dictatorship is socialism of one form or another.  Socialism is nothing more than promises made that can't be kept without an ever-increasing central power. 

Marx did not advocate for dictatorship.  Hitler did not promise to be a dictator.  Chavez did not promise to rule with an iron fist and destroy the economy of his country.  Mao promised to elevate the peasant and bring down the rich.  It took several years for the Russian revolution to devolve into dictatorship.  Eqality of outcome was a promise that could not be kept.  After all, some are more equal than others.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2020, 06:06:28 pm »
Quote
You are confusing communism with socialism.

Very rarely in history has a county suddenly become ruled by a dictator.  The usual path to dictatorship is socialism of one form or another.  Socialism is nothing more than promises made that can't be kept without an ever-increasing central power. 

Marx did not advocate for dictatorship.  Hitler did not promise to be a dictator.  Chavez did not promise to rule with an iron fist and destroy the economy of his country.  Mao promised to elevate the peasant and bring down the rich.  It took several years for the Russian revolution to devolve into dictatorship.  Eqality of outcome was a promise that could not be kept.  After all, some are more equal than others.
Well you have hit the nail on the head there Kathy, The US system is the most equal in the world.........
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2020, 08:42:25 am »
There is two forms of power, money and the masses.  As long as the masses can offset the power of money a dictator will not come to power.  A written constitutions means nothing when power goes the other way.  It is not socialism that creates the dictator, it is money.  The Trump supporters point to his money.  Ironically he doesn't have any.
There is no dictator in power because of their socialistic views.  They are there because of money.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2020, 11:29:01 am »
There is two forms of power, money and the masses.  As long as the masses can offset the power of money a dictator will not come to power.  A written constitutions means nothing when power goes the other way.  It is not socialism that creates the dictator, it is money.  The Trump supporters point to his money.  Ironically he doesn't have any.
There is no dictator in power because of their socialistic views.  They are there because of money.

>  A written constitutions means nothing

Apparently to some it does not.

> when power goes the other way.  It is not socialism that creates the dictator, it is money.

Where did you find this? In some manifesto? Or is that what Hitler, Chavez, and Mau told there people? If citizens were loyal to America and our Constitution, Flag and Form of Government and what these represent, things would not go the other way.

> There is no dictator in power because of their socialistic views.  They are there because of money.

Why do people with socialist views come here? Or any other view separate from the love of America?  From your words which may reflect your way of thinking, (if I am understanding you correctly), it isn't the love our Constitution that holds your attraction? I can only guess.
Knowing socialism is in direct contrast to our American Way of Government, what is the mindset of socialist leaning folks which come here? Could it be; Get what you can from the Yanks, and then demand more? You tell me.
Puzzled




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« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 12:11:26 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2020, 11:49:30 am »
Quote
There is two forms of power, money and the masses.  As long as the masses can offset the power of money a dictator will not come to power.  A written constitutions means nothing when power goes the other way.  It is not socialism that creates the dictator, it is money.  The Trump supporters point to his money.  Ironically he doesn't have any.
There is no dictator in power because of their socialistic views.  They are there because of money.

Quote
There is two forms of power, money and the masses.

Those are two powers.  The law is designed to constrain both. The law, or the enforcement of the law, is a power.  The constitution is the law.  It is specifically designed to protect the people from masses, and those who would in other ways take the natural rights of the people.
Interesting to me is that the left (of both parties) are hot to give those natural rights to the government.  You invite the circumstances that lead to the loss of rights.

Quote
A written constitution means nothing when power goes the other way.

Not if it is treated as law.  Only if it is treated as a "living document" subject to the whims of the current powers.  Thus the need for originalists on the court.

Quote
There is no dictator in power because of their socialistic views.

This is demonstrably untrue.  They may have used their money to promote their views and facilitate taking power, but it is the views that led to the dictatorship.
Most of the founders of this country and subsequent leaders have been wealthy.  Wealth is not evil.  Wealth allows people to do things for good or evil.  Money is like weapons.  It does not jump off the table and do stuff by itself.






They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2020, 02:10:26 pm »
As usual, that is a really good post. I totally agree.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2020, 08:50:27 am »
The law, or the enforcement of the law, is a power.
Always overridden by money.
Quote
Most of the founders of this country and subsequent leaders have been wealthy.

And were bigots.
I find it so ironic that you Kathy would be a second class citizen, have no right to vote and be excluded from most parts of the military if the constitution (law in your words) did not have the ability to change.  Be careful for what you wish for.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2020, 10:00:56 pm »
Quote
The law, or the enforcement of the law, is a power.
Always overridden by money.
Quote
Most of the founders of this country and subsequent leaders have been wealthy.

And were bigots.
I find it so ironic that you Kathy would be a second class citizen, have no right to vote and be excluded from most parts of the military if the constitution (law in your words) did not have the ability to change.  Be careful for what you wish for.

I said the constitution was the law.  I did not say that it could not be changed.  Until it is changed, it is the law.

as for the founders being bigots, they were people of their times.  We can't just the past by the present.

 One of the things I enjoy when I go overseas is crawling around old ruins.  Many of those old ruins were built by people who conquered others and used slave labor.  By today's standards, they would be condemned.  By the standards of their times, they built great things and spread civiliaztion and law across a barbarian world.  Would we want the Roman, Greek, or Persian standards now?  No.  did we, and do we, benefit from what they did?  Yes.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2020, 08:43:49 am »
Until it is changed, it is the law.

as for the founders being bigots, they were people of their times.  We can't just the past by the present.

 One of the things I enjoy when I go overseas is crawling around old ruins.  Many of those old ruins were built by people who conquered others and used slave labor.  By today's standards, they would be condemned.  By the standards of their times, they built great things and spread civiliaztion and law across a barbarian world.  Would we want the Roman, Greek, or Persian standards now?  No.  did we, and do we, benefit from what they did?  Yes.

So how is it that a sitting president can get away with campaigning on the white house lawn?  How is it that he can use the presidency for his personal gain?  How is it that he can lie to the american people (the world for that matter)?  How is it that he can interfere in an investigation of himself?  How is it that he can ignore treaties with other countries?  By his own words he can break any law he so desires.  He has the money (another lie)
If we cannot judge the past by the present we surely will return to it.
I see no value to civilization by collecting taxes from concurred people, building pyramids and burying the valuables in the pyramids.  Where I see a benefit to civilization is when countries work together to maintain peace and freedoms, work together to combat disease, work together to prevent starvation, work together to create technical advancement.  Nun of this is benefited by slavery.  Slavery slows down civilization and keeps wealth flowing to a select few.  Exactly the goals of Mr Trump.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2020, 12:13:37 pm »
Quote
So how is it that a sitting president can get away with campaigning on the white house lawn?  How is it that he can use the presidency for his personal gain?  How is it that he can lie to the american people (the world for that matter)?  How is it that he can interfere in an investigation of himself?  How is it that he can ignore treaties with other countries?  By his own words he can break any law he so desires.  He has the money (another lie)

Lets assume that your portrayal of Trumps actions is accurate.  I don't have time to take them point by point.
Can you list which parts of the constitution/law he has broken? 


Quote
If we cannot judge the past by the present we surely will return to it.

No, we should learn from history, not try to judge by today's standards and erase it. 

Quote
I see no value to civilization by collecting taxes from concurred people, building pyramids and burying the valuables in the pyramids.  Where I see a benefit to civilization is when countries work together to maintain peace and freedoms, work together to combat disease, work together to prevent starvation, work together to create technical advancement.  Nun of this is benefited by slavery.  Slavery slows down civilization and keeps wealth flowing to a select few.  Exactly the goals of Mr Trump.

Slavery is not the issue.  Those societies refined engineering, wrote laws that our current societies still use, and advanced
 agricultural practices that fed the masses, just to name a few things.  They also conquered and had slaves.  Should they be erased because they had slave labor?

Countries do work together to do all the things you have listed.  Not all countries care to do those things or work with others.
  As for taxes, all taxes are confiscation of earnings.  It does not matter whether the people are conquered or simply allow it.

I am not sure what your comment about Trump is about.  If you want to clarify, I'll address it.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2020, 06:29:52 pm »

I said the constitution was the law.  I did not say that it could not be changed.  Until it is changed, it is the law.

And it was changed and now a minority wants to change it back against the will of the people.

No one said anything about erasing history but in many cases we don't want to repeat it.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2020, 09:34:55 pm »
Quote
And it was changed and now a minority wants to change it back against the will of the people.

First of all, a minority could not change it at all.  In what way does this minority want to "change it back"?

Quote
No one said anything about erasing history but in many cases we don't want to repeat it.

Very true.  All the more reason to allow history to be out there for all to see and judge for themselves.  If you hide it, or destroy it, there is no point of reference to encourage questioning.  There is a reason that countries like China tried to erase their history.  If there is no past, there is nothing to compare with the present. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2020, 08:51:29 am »
You can't change the past, you can't hide the past but you can certainly repeat it.  It would be nice if we could blot out the Trump presidency from our history books but I am afraid that can't happen.  All we can hope for is the repair of the damage knowing it will take a long time.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline iddee

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2020, 11:33:57 am »
For a post as wild and far-fetched as that, I can only refer you to this.

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=54100.0

Be sure to put your big-girl panties on before reading it. Being the truth. rather than your fantasies, it  may scare you to death.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Will there be something new in the way of Politics in the US?
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2020, 03:08:24 pm »
Quote
All we can hope for is the repair of the damage knowing it will take a long time.

The damage done during the Trump presidency has been done by the left and by the bureaucracies that apparently serve the left.  The damage done by the Obama admin from both policies and his blessing of the attempt to take down Trump both before and after the election will take decades to overcome, if it ever can be overcome.

All that was done would have remained hidden if Hillary had been elected.  For that reason alone, we can thank whatever deity we thank, that she was not.

What Biden and his son were up to would have remained hidden.  The lies of the FBI would have remained hidden.

If that is the world you want, you are welcome to it.  I prefer to know when those I pay have gone off the rails and need a cleanup.




They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville