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Author Topic: operation golden bee  (Read 1043 times)

Offline crispy

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operation golden bee
« on: September 17, 2020, 10:52:34 pm »
Hi all well i have transfered the bees back into the nuc now very well behaved bees these ones tomorrow operation golden bee begins 
 here is an operational out line
 
0530 close nuc door all bees locked in straglers to rv with new nuc

1330 move from my loc to breeders loc with bees secured in nuc and bee bag secured

1730 Arrive at breeders loc hand over old nuc recieve new nuc secure in back of vehicle with straps and bee bag

1800 Move from breeders loc to rv point and rally with colonel sanders for rations

1830 proceed from rv point to my loc

2030  arrrive my loc secure bees in bee yard

2100 open nuc door at my loc

2115 move to secure location rest open beer and drink quantity required

2230  end mission 


 
 

Offline Acebird

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2020, 08:22:20 am »
That makes for a long day.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2020, 06:43:49 am »
operation golden bee  a success 1 casualty reported /sting to forehead self inflicted wound through carlesnes

Offline Biggles

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2020, 06:54:11 am »
Recommended therapy is:  Band-aid in a bottle.

Well done Crispy.  Hopefully smooth sailing from here.

Mark

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2020, 07:03:58 pm »
Thanks mark the breeder sent some photos of the nuc he had taken heaps of bees and larvea wants me to do the transfer either today or tommorow possibly due to the number of bees .

Offline Bee North

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2020, 03:19:16 am »
Well done Crispy!

Keep us updated. I hope you get to spot your queen this time round. Is she marked?

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2020, 05:00:58 am »
Hi bee north i did the transfer today as the weather for the rest of the week is pretty bleak raining every day ,anyway the breeder sent me photos he had taken of larvae in the brood chamber so i had a look when i was doing the change plenty of capped brood and lots of larvae but i didn't see any eggs ? maybe my untrained eye i don't know i did see what i believe to be queen cells 3 formed and one under construction didn't touch them , i didn't sight the queen but then again probably my untrained eye but a lot of bees and brood in various stages just hope there is a queen in there ,ill give it 4 weeks and see what happens if i dont spot any eggs or more larvae i will order a new queen from a breeder these are different to the bees in the first nuc they are darker in color not golden the bees that were left behind yesterday have intermingled with these and they really stand out as bright gold anyway have my fingers crossed that i now have a queen . 

Offline Bee North

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2020, 05:25:47 am »
On arrival: no eggs, no queen, and 3 cells.
That doesnt sound right to me Crispy.

On arrival you nuc should have:
A queen, eggs, larvae at all stages and stores.


Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2020, 11:19:57 am »
Hi bee north as i said it may just be my eye is not trained to pickup eggs ,i wasnt really looking for the queen as such but it would have been nice just wanted to get the change over done fairly quick as the weather is pretty sad possible snow on friday in the high ground and polar winds ,my ant problem isnt getting any better pesky sugar ants drinking and drowning in the sugar syrup for the bees i put out in the top feeder hopefuly the weather is looking a bit better on sunday i may pull the top of and check again and if i can take some photos as people can get an idea of what im seeing .  .   

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2020, 06:28:34 am »
Well i dont know what to do ! i changed the sugar syrup today and did a check of the frames all the larvae or 90%of what i was given is now capped , i found 3 what i believe to be queen cups with nothing in them and i couldnt see any eggs or new larvae . If this is so then i cannot see that or how there is a queen in the nuc that i was sold and that will be the second one that has no queen , can someone be so unlucky? As you can imagine i am some what depressed and a bit frustrated ,i have to change the syrup again on thursday this time i will take my camera with me so i can take some photos and check all the frames again but i hold little hope that if there is no queen that this nuc will survive as the earliest i can get a queen is probably end of october and by this time the hive will be devastated . 

Offline Biggles

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2020, 07:33:34 am »
Hi Crispy

Don't despair.

You don't mention if there were any queen cells in this one.  If there is, park the nuc in a sunny spot and hold off for a week, then take a look at what's happened.

If there is a queen cell, you can give your vendor the flick and hatch your own.  Alternatively is still no queen, insist he give you a LAYING QUEEN IN A QUEEN CAGE.  That's the least he can do for you.

Regards  Mark

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2020, 07:42:31 am »
Hi mark i will open the hive again on thursday the queen cells that i saw were open and i could not see anything inside them i wish i had taken my camera with me but was to busy getting everything ready and forgot , my biggest concern is that he will not get any new queens until the end of october i just cannot believe this seems to have happened twice to me .I have emailed a couple of interstate queen breeders as if there is no sign of any eggs or larvae i will have to do something fairly quickly or the hive will perish as brood is starting to hatch now as one hatched when i was inspecting the frames so the rest wont be far behind on that frame i have to say i might be new but i am pretty sure i know what to look for  i will take a small torch with me next inspection as well to shine into the cells i have to say i am not a happy camper at the moment .

Offline Biggles

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2020, 08:36:25 pm »
Hi Crispy

I understand your frustration.  It should not be this hard.

When looking in the cells, stand with your back to the sun, so there is direct sunlight down the cell.  If the eggs are bolt upright they can be hard to see.  Move the frame around slightly to get the best angle.

Regards Mark.

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2020, 04:15:57 am »
Hi mark yes i agree it shouldnt be this hard anyway here are some shots taken about 20 minutes ago of activity of the hive its around 430 now here in adelaide .[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Offline Biggles

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2020, 04:15:49 pm »
Hi Crispy

Leave it sit for a week and see what happens.  Let nature take its course.

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 02:49:36 am »
Hi mark i will open it again on thursday as i have to change the syrup and drain the sugar ants out (pest maximus) ill have a good look them take some photos and if nothing will send them to the bee breeder and see what he has to say , im hoping he wont say something like "the queen has swarmed and we dont cover that "as i wouldnt know if she has or not but there are plenty of bees in there .

Offline Bee North

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2020, 06:43:23 pm »
Hi Crispy
We all feel for you mate but dont despair as you are learning a lot through this process and as far as your bee hobby is concerned these are early days and we will help you get sorted.

Let's look at some facts to hopefully provide some clarity regarding bees in Aus....as I see it.

Up here in the tropics, I have grafted my queens and only just managed to get my nucs strong enough to sell...others in my club are not at that stage yet.

You are at the other extream down there and I can only assume any nuc for sale would be with a queen from last years stock and explains why your supplier doesnt have queens.

It sounds like you need a queen Crispy.

I'm not sure if you guys would even have enough drones flying down there to mate with a virgin even if you had one. But maybe im wrong, someone with local knowledge could confirm your chances.

If you decide to requeen, have a look for suppliers in QLD as they will have/should have queens first...I wish I had a spare I would send you one.

Try this guy. Tell him your situation and beg for one as his queens are booked in advance as they are beautiful. My stock is off his.

Thomas 0417116868.

Hopefully on next inspection you find some eggs. If not get a queen. But start looking you can always cancel and it's not a huge investment...good luck!





« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 06:56:24 pm by Bee North »

Offline Bee North

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2020, 10:06:21 pm »
Hey Crispy.

I have an option for you.

If your queenless on your inspection and cant get one let me know. I am replacing a queen I have and you can have her if you want her, I just ask you cover postage.

Shes one of mine from March this year. She is laying up a storm and has produced lots of honey. Down side is her hive is a little hot.

She could definitely get you through until more queens are available if you decide to replace her down the track.

If your interested PM me and I can post her Monday.

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2020, 11:35:35 pm »
Hi all sorry for the late reply i had a procedure n my eyes yesterday and could not even see so am only reading this now ,bee north thankyou that is an amazing gesture and of course i would compensate you for your time and postage . i will do an inspection this afternoon as just like murphys law everything has come at once and i have another job that has to be done for someone today .
I am really hopeing that i will see uncapped larvae when i do the inspection at least that will confirm i have a queen i will be taking photos of every frame that i inspect and of the hive before i start .I emailed a chap in nsw and was told a queen would not be available until at least january as they are in high demand at present ,what annoys me is that the breeder clearly states on the paperwork 3/4 frames of bees A NEW SEASON QUEEN and frames of honey , how can he supply a new season queen when they wont be available to breeders or anyone here until october from a local queen breeder ?.
I should have gone to a bloke 2 km away who catches swarms he has been doing bee keeping for 46 years and would have been assured of a queen as i watched him remove a swarm from a friends cocos palm last sunday no suit nothing just cut off the branch layed it on the hive and the bees walked in amazing to watch .
Keep an eye on this post as ill let you know what i find and post some photos as well i have fingers and toes crossed i find that i have a queen and it was just my eyesight that didnt see the eggs .

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2020, 02:46:45 am »
Hi all well this house bee is a happy bee i did the inspection and found uncapped larvae which would be right for the time frame , it wasnt a great deal but there was larvae on a number of frames . i have taken the top feeder away for now and will probably put it back tomorow afternoon with new syrup i have taken some photos to show you what i found , the queen cells have not anything in them but there was one large cell about 2 inches down from the top ofne of the frames so i just left it alone .[ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2020, 02:55:52 am »
Well that didnt work out very well did it ! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2020, 03:00:29 am »
Hmmmm thats frustrating [ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ][ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2020, 05:57:39 pm »
I believe there would be high value for you to go back to your thread called   -transfer done-   and review my response/comments #9 about the disruptions of nuc transfers and apply those learnings. For the first month of a nuc or package, you have to be inspecting once a week 8 days or less between visits, and be destroying those queen cups and queen cells when you see them. Else you will have a new virgin queen soon emerge which will kill the laying queen that is in there. Nucs are much quicker to get stable and established than a package.  However, they are not hands off.  The beekeeper still has to beekeep, taking action.

This new thread here sounds to me like you are headed down the same path as the first nuc, without having corrected the method or expectations.  So we can potentially expect the same end result, queen gone / no queen.


« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 11:53:10 am by TheHoneyPump »
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Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2020, 02:25:54 am »
Hi thehoneypump if you look at the series of photos i have placed in the first one you can actually see the cell i am talking about 2/3 of the way down the frame , i have been inspecting the frames about every 4 days when i change the sugar syrup and to that effect i believe i found what looked like 3 more partially built queen cells as i didnt have my amera with me at the time i was unable to get any photos to show what i had found to more experienced keepers such as yourself to get some advice hwever i will be changing the syrup again on friday as specified by the breeder so i shall endevoure to take some snaps of what i find when i do the inspection . .   

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2020, 10:21:26 am »
Chrispy,
Inspecting a hive every 4 days is not good. The bees will blame the queen, especially a new one, on the disruption of the hive. When you have a new queen you need to give her at least 3 weeks to prove she is a good queen by establishing a good brood pattern.
I recommend that from then on inspect every other week. Have a plan and when you reach that goal get out.
Jim Altmiller

Offline TheHoneyPump

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operation golden bee
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2020, 11:31:40 am »
I agree with Jim.  4 days is a bit short.  But if the beekeeper is not doing anything disruptive and not spending alot of time with the hive open (quick checks) it is fine no harm is done.  On the other end, anything over 10 days is too long as the bees can easily develop a queen cell and cap it by day 10 since the last visit. If the beekeeper waits much beyond 10 days he/she may return to find the queen gone and a virgin emerging or running around in there.  That is the situation I am hoping to help you avoid by my comments. Destroy the cells when you see them. Do not leave them.
It is ideal to catch and destroy cells when they are lengthened and are easy to identify but before they are capped. Because once capped the bees mode changes. Hence I advise the once a week inspection (7 to 8 days) schedule for 6 weeks on new builds. Later on an established hive, I may not inspect for over a month for most of the year.  During buildup swarm season or any new build I advise to look in there every week.
So, Destroy the queen cells when you see them. Do not leave them.  Later on when the hive is well established, beyond 8 weeks out the dynamics will be different and the advice about the cells may change. For now, in the early stages help that queen build stability in her nest without risk of rogue rivalries by eliminating all queen cells when you see them.

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 11:43:44 am by TheHoneyPump »
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Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2020, 01:01:25 am »
Hi guys hows this for a plan ,i will change the syrup on saturday morning and not enter the hive other than that wont check anything just leave it alone , i will change the syrup again the following wednesday approx 4 days between changes so that will be around 8 days .On the wednesday i will check the frames and change the syrup again the breeder told me to feed them for about 4 weeks and i have some pollen patties coming today as they devowered two in a week or thereabouts .The queen is apperently a late season one from last year as with fires ect queens are in short supply at the moment from good breeders and i think a lot of the pros have bought most of the stocks possibility of more around january 2021 .
I was reading a bit about the sucesion of a queen how the bees will succeed a queen if she is not a good layer or if she is old so i am wondering if this may be why they have made these cells i know a queen is supposed to last up to 5 years from what i have read but to be honest i do not know how old this queen really is after seeing the laying pattern compared to others i have seen she is a bit lazy i think and maybe the bees have said shape up or your out i dont know but i am hesitant to cut out new queen cells rather let the bees do there thing and sort it out what are your opinions ?

Offline Garigal

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2020, 02:47:02 am »
I think you need to just leave them alone and let them get on with it to be honest.

Can you see bees foraging because I wouldn?t be feeding them if they are, especially pollen patties as they are a magnet for small hive beetle.

If they are in a corflute nuc give them some shade it?s going to be warm in Adelaide looking at the weather forecast.

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2020, 03:06:03 am »
Hi carigal they are in a proper hive super now transfered them the day after i got them home ,they have plenty of access to water via a bird bath and also there own private watering station that i made up saterday . With the feeding i can only go by what the breeder told me to do sugar syrup changed every 3/4 days and pollen patties for the first 4 weeks ,they are foraging ,in fact there is a traffic jam at the entrance to get in and out got bullets flying everywhere but this could be because we have had crap weather the last 2 days rain and more rain ,sun shine now and they are going bunta , i am going to stick with what i said in my last post 8 days before i touch the brood again i cant think like a bee and its there hive so ill leave them to it, it will go one way or the other after next week only one more week to worry about sugar syrup changing [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]   

Offline TheHoneyPump

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operation golden bee
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2020, 12:30:10 pm »
I like your plan crispy.  However, please do go in and check for and destroy all evidence of queen cells on saturday.  Switch to an 8 day inspection schedule after saturday.  Else, you risk being caught off guard by a rogue Q later by neglecting a look in on saturday.
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Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2020, 09:23:29 pm »
Hi all well went in this morning with the intention f not disturbing the nest but my curiosity got the better of me ,changed the sugar syrup over and one thing i did find was dead bees in the tubes not many but a few wether they had just lost there footing and fallen in i dont know and as y luck would have it i forgot my bloody camera again .
Anyway upon checking the frames the queen has started to lay well lots of larvae and god capped brood now the queen cells i thought i saw i could only find 2 one uncapped with nothing in it and the other to be truthfull looking at it it doesnt look big enough to be a queen cell it isnt a drone cell but what i am thinking is perhaps there has been a defect in the drawn comb and they have combined 2/3 worker cells ,the reason i say this as from photos and seeing other queen breeders the cell would need to be larger an more scaley looking this one just looks like an oversized worker cell bigger than a drone cell but smaller than a queen .
Anyway after this inspection i am happy with what i saw i may leave it more than 4 weeks before adding another super as although the hive has a fair amount of bees i don't think they would be strong enough to start filling a second super yet ,the weather is looking good for the next week and a friend who owns a shop has got bottle brush in flower and they were going nuts yesterday on them my bees were also going crazy with traffic jams at the entrance to the hive time will tell if i have done the right thing ,   

Offline Bee North

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2020, 02:40:35 am »
Good news Crispy!
Have you seen her majesty yet?
Also...keep in mind queen cells are not always obvious.

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2020, 03:30:34 am »
Hi bee north no havent seen her yet but to be honest im not really looking for her but i do wish she was marked would make it so much easier ,did do a video today of the bees activity but dont think i would be able to post it not that technically minded , a rethink of my water feeder is due as i plucked 4 bees out of the water today all survived after drying off put some corks in as well ,im thinking i willget some of the pebbles and fill up the pot base and then raise the water level to just below them that way the bees can walk down the rocks and drink without falling in and drowning ,when ive done it ill post a photo .

Offline Garigal

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2020, 07:42:34 am »
A tray of damp sand will allow them to collect water without drowning.

Offline crispy

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Re: operation golden bee
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2020, 03:07:18 am »
Thanks carigal they like the bird bath they balance on the edge and drink away none have fallen in yet so thats a bonus  ,they do hang around for a while after they have finished drinking i think they are phsycing themselves up to fly back with a gut full of water .