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Offline Kathyp

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well, that was fun
« on: September 15, 2020, 07:46:22 pm »
a couple of weeks ago we decided to take our European vacation time and go to CA to see family instead.  We closed up our summer camp property, my son came to watch our place, and we drove 11 hours to my parents place.  Nice visit.  No worries.  We knew there were some fires in Oregon, but none to close to our place. 
Then came the extreme wind warning for home.  The wind hit on Monday, we drove home on Tuesday.  By the time we headed out through CA and into Oregon, the wind had whipped multiple fires into firestorms in both states. 

We got lucky and made it home before they closed the highway.  We got double lucky that our evacuation warning only went to level 2, but the smoke has been something awful.  Here we are one week later and you can hardly stand to work outside.  Neighbors have friends camped in the field next to us.  Others have just come home after our level was dropped to 1.  The rain that was supposed to come today, didn't.

So...that's where I have been.   :grin: 
It sure could have been worse and for many, it was worse. 

The big +?  When I collected the things I wanted to take with me if we left, I realized most of the crap in my house could burn and I'd never miss it!  Time for some trips to Goodwill. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline iddee

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 08:51:05 pm »
Glad to hear all is well. Hope it stays that way.
I prefer the Salvation Army, but Good Will is better than the Red Cross, so you're on the right track.   :wink: :cheesy:
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 10:18:41 pm »
Thumbs up to the last two post here. Blessings Kathy
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2020, 10:16:53 am »
Glad you're safe Kathy.  The masks we have to wear for covid are helpful with the smoke particulates.  We're just getting some of the smoke drift here in Utah, but I still need to wear my mask outdoors.  Vacation in August was very smoky farther north.  I masked up then, too.
Winter is coming.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2020, 04:33:55 pm »
No worries.  Climate change is a hoax and this will never happen again.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline iddee

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2020, 05:42:04 pm »
Climate change is a natural phenomenon and not man made, so this will continue to happen until the idiots allow the foresters to maintain and control the forests.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2020, 06:35:30 pm »
Kathyp,
Glad you are ok. Having Forest fires close to your home is scary. In 2006, the Buggaboo Fire, the largest fire in Florida history, came within less than a mile of our farm. Smoke turned the sky black and ash and burnt leaves rained down on the farm for about 10 days. I kept a rainbird sprinkler running on our farm house roof the entire time.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Acebird

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2020, 07:02:45 pm »
Climate change is a natural phenomenon and not man made
For the most part so are forest fires.  Extreme climate change is man made.  Extreme climate change causes extreme forest fires and extreme storms.  Forest management helps but is minor compared to the destruction of rain forests for the production of fuel.  What CA and OR are experiencing is natural but not normal.  Thinking the situation will go away on its own naturally is delusional.  There is a price to pay for that kind of thinking, just like covid.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2020, 08:22:41 pm »
Quote
Extreme climate change causes extreme forest fires and extreme storms.

It is natural and it is normal.  What has changed is the number of people living in areas that traditionally burned without impacting people as much.
What has changed in the more recent times is that they have ceased forest managment.  I believe I posted earlier about a large part of our forests being turned into "wilderness" area and predicted that it would all burn.  It is burning.

You can either keep people walled up in cities and let the forests burn, or you can manage the forests so that when there is a fire, it is not as severe.  End logging and forest maintainance and you end up with a  huge amount of fuel just waiting for ligtening or careless people to set it off.

So no, this is not about climate change.  This is about people and thier carelessness and stupidity.


They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Kathyp

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2020, 08:23:59 pm »
Quote
I prefer the Salvation Army, but Good Will is better than the Red Cross,

Red Cross doesn't take donations of stuff, so you are saved the lecture.  At some point, you really ought to get over it.   :wink:

Goodwill is closer, so more convenient for drop off of stuff. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2020, 09:01:07 am »

You can either keep people walled up in cities and let the forests burn, or you can manage the forests so that when there is a fire, it is not as severe.  End logging and forest maintainance and you end up with a  huge amount of fuel just waiting for ligtening or careless people to set it off.

So no, this is not about climate change.  This is about people and thier carelessness and stupidity.
Your logic is totally flawed.  Prior to the Europeans landing in the Americas there was no forest management but there was far more forest and far less destruction from natural fires.  Climate change has become more severe due to what humans have done and are doing to the earth based on science not folk tale.
I get a kick out of people who like science when it brings niceties to their way of life but dits it when it cramps their style.
Logging everywhere in the world has destroyed forest.  The only reason why the earth is not barren is because of government restrictions and intervention requiring replanting.  Without that check the earth would not have a tree on it, climate would be much worse than it is now and most of the animals would be extinct until humans become extinct and then the earth would rejuvenate.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Acebird

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2020, 09:10:31 am »
Quote
I prefer the Salvation Army, but Good Will is better than the Red Cross,
I don't know who made this quote but they are comparing a private for profit organization to a non-profit organization.  I am not sure if the Red Cross takes clothing donations for immediate need but they don't take donations on a regular basis, sort through and sell as a profit like Good Will.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2020, 09:38:17 am »
Here is your global warming.

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline iddee

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2020, 09:57:09 am »
I see you know nothing about the Red Cross. You donate blood, but they get an enormous price for every pint they let out. Example... 1959, one acre land, 50 dollars. One pint Red Cross blood, 26 dollars.  IE. Two pints would cost you more than an acre of land at that time.

During the Korean war, the Red Cross was selling cigarettes on the battle field for 5 cents EACH. A pack of 20 at the base was 10 cents.

The Salvation Army is the only true non-profit of the three.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2020, 10:19:25 am »
Iddee unfortunately I fear you may be right.
My uncle told me of the cigarette scandal of the Red Cross as they took advantage of soldiers in Korea. He was there though he did not smoke and said he would never support Red Cross as the result.  The boys were fighting for their lives and being taken advantage of by the Red Cross.
Hopefully they have cleaned up their act? Maybe so. I can not see Kathy supporting this type of behavior.

Back in the seventies, We were watching something on TV when James Stuart came on an advertisement and stated the  following.

 "On the early frontier you could count on your neighbors to help you,  today things are different, when you need help who can you count on? Who does all those things other folks never have time for?  Wells there's one neighbor, your Red Cross volunteer.  Now maybe you have not got a lot of hours to give to the Red Cross but where do you fit in; neighbor?"

My uncle then told us about the Red Cross situation in Korea with sadness. I never forgot it even though I was  small. Again I hope this has changed. Even so I still applauded the good volunteers which help in good faith and the good things they do. I suppose most organizations have their flaws or advantage takers working for them?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 11:02:21 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2020, 11:00:50 am »
Quote
I don't know who made this quote but they are comparing a private for profit organization to a non-profit organization.

All are non-profits.  All sell things to make money. All of them do a huge amount of free stuff, but like all free stuff it has to be paid for somehow.
 Iddee, I know you dislike RC and that's fine, but much of what is reported about them from the old wars is either innacurate or has a reason.  It is not my job to defend them.  Use them or not.  Like them or not.  Your choice.  Just be accurate.

Quote
My uncle told me of the cigarette scandal of the Red Cross as they took advantage of soldiers in Korea. He was there though he did not smoke and said he would never support Red Cross as the result.

I have never heard this story and can't find any refference to it.  I do know about the WW2 story of charging for doughnuts and coffee, but that story is often told without telling the reason for it.

People should support whatever they want to support.  I chose to do disaster relief with RC because they have the resources to pull off the big stuff.  I switched to Team Rubicon when RC changed its deployment protocols.  Do what you want to do, but do something.   :wink:

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2020, 11:06:30 am »
Kathy please read the rest of my post reply 14, as I edited as you were posting, probably at the same time. My Uncle was a Corpsman, (medic) in that war and watched men die right before his eyes. He later became a Minister. I do not believe he had reason to mislead us. Iddees post was the second time I have heard of this.

> People should support whatever they want to support.  I chose to do disaster relief with RC because they have the resources to pull off the big stuff.  I switched to Team Rubicon when RC changed its deployment protocols.  Do what you want to do, but do something.   :wink:

Agreed and I thank you for your service to mankind, through your military background as well as you civilian volunteering. Let me add is not and was not my intention to offend any volunteer at any organization. Too the contrary. Hats off to you good volunteers.   
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 11:26:02 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2020, 11:58:38 am »
Lol.  I am not easily offended and I would not take offense on behalf of an organization!  I don't think your uncle lied.  I just can't find anything about that anywhere.  The donut and coffee thing is all over the place.  I was just wondering if the circumstances of the cigarette charge might be the same as the coffee charge.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline iddee

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2020, 12:00:58 pm »
Kathy, I am accurate. My uncle was laying in the field with two 50 caliber machine bullet holes through his stomach. One on each side of his naval. He ended up with 16 feet of plastic intestines and a goat's stomach. He told the story and was backed up by many patients in Womack Army Hospital in Fort Bragg, N. C.

As for the blood, my father took 26 pints at 26 dollars each in 1959 in Baptist Hospital in Winston Salem, N. C.

Where you are off track is, I am degrading RC admin. The volunteers are a full 9 planets away from the admin. They do a world of good, in spite of their leaders.

Also, they don't get paid millions like Elizabeth Dole.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: well, that was fun
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2020, 02:02:13 pm »
Quote
As for the blood, my father took 26 pints at 26 dollars each in 1959 in Baptist Hospital in Winston Salem, N. C.

The blood story I know is accurate.  They do charge for it as do all agencies that collect blood.  They started providing blood for the military in 1941.  Blood collection, testing, and transporting are very expensive.  RC, like any other non-profit, can't make profit from services.  Blood collection is not covered by disaster relief donations and so the cost of collection and processing has to be covered by fee.  A non-profit is only allowed to keep a buffer of money for oportating costs/emergencies, not for profit. 

Your argument for the cost of the blood should be against the military.  Why did the military pass on the cost of life saving treatment to its members?  They don't do that now.   They still get blood from RC. 

Elizabeth Dole was probably one of the best leaders of RC.  The current woman is an asshat.  I know they get paid a lot, but this is an international organization and attracting people with the experience to run such an organization costs money.  IDK what the current woman gets paid, but whatever it is, it is to much.  Serices everywhere have degraded under her management, but for some reason, she's been allowed to stay since 2008.  I met her that year and knew we were in trouble.  She came to my kitchen for a photo op and never bothered to meet any of the volunteers, or me.  I was running the biggest food service/kitchen in that disaster at the time. 

At this point, I'd be happy to have another relief agency in place of RC, but they are chartered by Congress for disaster relief.  They are getting into bed with the government in a way they resisted before, and it is not to our benefit.  This started about the time of hurricanes Gustav and Ike when they were running a deficit due to all the disasters and FEMA stepped in to "help". 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville