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Author Topic: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?  (Read 715 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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Does anyone know if Varroa Mites are an enemy of any of our Native Bee Species? 
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2020, 08:54:51 pm »
As I understand it there are no native bees in the Americas.

Dr. Seely's studies in Upstate New York indicate that the mites destroyed much of the feral bee population in natural hollows but were replaced with hardier strains with African genes.

Offline rast

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2020, 10:00:37 pm »
I believe Ben is speaking of other than honeybees such as Carpenter, Bumble and so forth that are considered native. I can't find anything but honeybees due to the mites life cycle being so in synch with them Ben. 
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2020, 10:35:38 pm »
As I understand it there are no native bees in the Americas.
Native honey bees?  No.  Native bees?  Absolutely.   

Dr. Seely's studies in Upstate New York indicate that the mites destroyed much of the feral bee population in natural hollows but were replaced with hardier strains with African genes.
Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt any genetic changes in NY's feral population were from African genes, since there are no Africanized bees in NY. 

Does anyone know if Varroa Mites are an enemy of any of our Native Bee Species? 
To my knowledge, Varroa destructor doesn't affect any native bees, but there are mites which do cause issues for natives bees, like pollen mites in mason bees.  Here's a sad picture of a bee covered in them.  :cry: 
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2020, 11:20:21 pm »
I believe Ben is speaking of other than honeybees such as Carpenter, Bumble and so forth that are considered native. I can't find anything but honeybees due to the mites life cycle being so in synch with them Ben.

Yes rast and thanks. Sorry I did not make it clearer. I meant native bee species here in America such as the bee as was posted by member on another topic;  (Is this a bee?) A bee which carries pollen beneath its body, and well as the bees you mentioned and others. As I understand it honey bees are not native to America. Though Mr Bush has made some interesting points that makes me wonder if the experts may be wrong on that as well. 😊

PS, good picture of the mason bee in this topic as well Memberr.




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« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 11:40:48 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2020, 11:36:05 pm »
Though Mr Bush has made some interesting points that makes me wonder if the experts may be wrong on that as well. 😊
That's true, I found that article interesting as well.  It reminds me of the controversy surrounding whether horses are native to North America. 
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2020, 11:43:05 pm »
As I understand it there are no native bees in the Americas.
Native honey bees?  No.  Native bees?  Absolutely.   

Dr. Seely's studies in Upstate New York indicate that the mites destroyed much of the feral bee population in natural hollows but were replaced with hardier strains with African genes.
Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt any genetic changes in NY's feral population were from African genes, since there are no Africanized bees in NY.   

Ms Member, there is a female in Arizona, let?s call her D,  that has honeybees that test 83% africian honey bees.  She sales bees to anybody with cash.  My fear is she ships queens, like to New York.  D bees are dangerous to the public.  I have seen video of D bees are they are insane mean: like hundreds of stingers in the cameraman gloves.  D is somewhat famous, Varroa resistant stock, she claims drones are kicked out of hives in the Fall because they are diseased or sick.  A real wacko with very mean bees.  D bees are Varroa resistant but that is because they are africian genetics.

I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2020, 11:51:22 pm »
Though Mr Bush has made some interesting points that makes me wonder if the experts may be wrong on that as well. 😊
That's true, I found that article interesting as well.  It reminds me of the controversy surrounding whether horses are native to North America.

Thank you Member as you mention horses being native to America I have wondered about this. Though I have not read the article that you know of about native horses. Or any for that matter.  What really gets my attention, there is the Appaloosa a horse made famous by the Nez Perce Indians. A totally different horse than the others. As we were taught all horses that were here were brought in by the Spanish Explorers. Somehow it just does not add up to me. lol.  I have much confidence in Mr Bush and his ideas of bees, he may be right in his questioning whether honey bees being native to America?  Thanks for your thoughts 15th
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2020, 11:57:27 pm »
Mr Van thank you for making us aware of this bee trade by this lady.   I watched a documentary about the Arizona bee and it is amazing how mean those bees are. I do not want to put out false information so please correct me if I a wrong. I am thinking much of the whole state is pretty much infested? We certainly do not need them spread out all over the country. Unfortunately some who may not know better, namely newer beekeepers infatuated with the TF movement, may go for this, thinking they are doing good by ordering a resistant bee? Just a scenario for food for thought. Sad
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Skeggley

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2020, 03:13:16 am »
How about SHB with native bees?
Are there many native bees there that produce honey?

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2020, 03:49:03 am »
How about SHB with native bees?
Are there many native bees there that produce honey?

Hi Skeggley, that is a good question.  I am thinking the Bumble Bee 🐝 does produce a honey. Thought bitter I have been told. I do know know if this is true. What about your native bee, same question?
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Skeggley

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2020, 04:12:31 am »
Although we don't have SHB in SW Aust we do have native stingless bees that produce honey.(Further south than me unfortunately) Over East there are both and weak colonys do suffer from SHB much like EHB's as I understand.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2020, 10:16:21 am »
Ms Member, there is a female in Arizona, let?s call her D,  that has honeybees that test 83% africian honey bees.  She sales bees to anybody with cash.  My fear is she ships queens, like to New York.  D bees are dangerous to the public.  I have seen video of D bees are they are insane mean: like hundreds of stingers in the cameraman gloves.  D is somewhat famous, Varroa resistant stock, she claims drones are kicked out of hives in the Fall because they are diseased or sick.  A real wacko with very mean bees.  D bees are Varroa resistant but that is because they are africian genetics.
Interesting information, Van.  I agree that it's certainly possible that Africanized bees could take hold through shipping bees like this, but I don't believe Dr. Seeley attributed the varroa resistance of the wild colonies in NY to Africanized genes, although he did say they played a role in helping the colonies in Arizona survive.  In chapter 2 of his book, "The Lives of Bees" he describes how he learned that the bees were developing resistance through the African genes in Arizona, which made him concerned that the wild bees in his area had all perished, because they didn't have any African genes. 

Are there many native bees there that produce honey?

Hi Skeggley, that is a good question.  I am thinking the Bumble Bee 🐝 does produce a honey. Thought bitter I have been told. I do know know if this is true. What about your native bee, same question?
Phillip is correct, bumble bees do produce some honey, although the quantity is nothing compared to what honey bees produce, since bumble bee colonies do not need to survive the winter intact.  I think that the only North American bees that make honey are honey bees and bumble bees.  There are some stingless bees in Central America that make honey, but I don't think their range extends into the US. 

How about SHB with native bees?
There is concern about SHB with bumble bees, since their nests provide everything that a honey bee nest does for the beetles.  As with many things about native bees, more research is needed to determine the extent of the problem, but there is no known reason why the beetles wouldn't cause just as much of a problem for bumbles.  I doubt there is any concern for the solitary bees though, since they don't provision large nests with stores and brood. 
     

 
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2020, 12:36:54 pm »
Though Mr Bush has made some interesting points that makes me wonder if the experts may be wrong on that as well. 😊
That's true, I found that article interesting as well.  It reminds me of the controversy surrounding whether horses are native to North America.

Thank you Member as you mention horses being native to America I have wondered about this. Though I have not read the article that you know of about native horses. Or any for that matter.  What really gets my attention, there is the Appaloosa a horse made famous by the Nez Perce Indians. A totally different horse than the others. As we were taught all horses that were here were brought in by the Spanish Explorers. Somehow it just does not add up to me. lol.  I have much confidence in Mr Bush and his ideas of bees, he may be right in his questioning whether honey bees being native to America?  Thanks for your thoughts 15th
Horses were native to N.America until they became extinct here several thousand years ago.   And then the Spanish conquistadors brought the species back.  Some of those Spanish horses (and later French and English horses) escaped, where all the open land supported a fast population explosion for the feral horses.  The tribes living near the plains were quick to see the advantages of mastering them, and soon entered and populated the plains where, before, water sources were too far apart to colonize.
The Apaloosa was a breed developed by the Nez Perce specifically for speed, stamina and agility.  The distinctive spotted coats were a bonus to them.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2020, 01:04:41 pm »
>The Apaloosa was a breed developed by the Nez Perce specifically for speed, stamina and agility.

And unique they are! Thing is I have not seen any other Spanish descended horse with spots. Pinto colored, Paint horses as some call them, yes, spots no. How did the Ap with its short tail, long head and distinctive spots come from a horse that displays neither? I am not arguing nor disputing you Hops, this is the questions that I have had of the Appaloosa breed. And yes the originals were just as you describe. I am glad varroa destructor does not attack them lol. Thanks for your reply. Always good hearing your thoughts and points.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2020, 02:26:10 pm »
We probably shouldn't keep talking about this, because it's very off topic, but I LOVE spotted horses.  Appaloosas, Colorado Rocky Mountains, Ponies of the Americas, you name it.  I think my favorite spotted breed is the Sugarbush Harlequin Draft Horse, which combines the big draft body type with spots.  So awesome!  :grin:     
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2020, 03:04:40 pm »
We probably shouldn't keep talking about this, because it's very off topic, but I LOVE spotted horses.  Appaloosas, Colorado Rocky Mountains, Ponies of the Americas, you name it.  I think my favorite spotted breed is the Sugarbush Harlequin Draft Horse, which combines the big draft body type with spots.  So awesome!  :grin:   

Being all comments on the native bee have been exhausted and since I started the topic lol; I don't mind that you brought up horses. I love them also! I doubt that much more can be added to what has already been answered about the native bee and varroa anyway?

I did not know that the spanish brought in spotted draft horses, or was this breed later developed from draft horses brought in from Europe and or other places in the world, cross breed with the Appaloosas for color? Or maybe some other option such as a spotted horse originating in Spain? We can continue on or we can start a new topic if you prefer?   :grin:  Thanks for you comments.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2020, 03:24:47 pm »
Being all comments on the native bee have been exhausted and since I started the topic lol; I don't mind that you brought up horses. I love them also! I doubt that much more can be added to what has already been answered about the native bee and varroa anyway?

I did not know that the spanish brought in spotted draft horses, or was this breed later developed from draft horses brought in from Europe and or other places in the world, cross breed with the Appaloosas for color? Or maybe some other option such as a spotted horse originating in Spain? We can continue on or we can start a new topic if you prefer?   :grin:  Thanks for you comments.
The Sugarbush Harlequin is a very new breed; I think the breed was only officially registered in like 2003.  It is an American breed, developed from the crossing of Appaloosas and Percherons for the purpose of having spotted carriage horses.   
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2020, 03:46:13 pm »
I bet they are beautiful. I went to a gathering in Clinton Arkansas a few years ago where there were over 44 thousand horses and mules there at one time! It was reported this was the largest gathering of so many horses and mules in one location since the Civil War. It was as sight. I saw draft horses crossed with zebras pulling wagons! What a sight!
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Does Varroa Destructor Attack Native Bees Along With Our Honey Bee?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2020, 04:05:55 pm »
Hops:  I hunted big horn sheep in the West fork, north of Nez Perce.  Hops, I have never heard a person mention of the name Nez Perce.  You must study a lot!  I found the Indian sheep caves, not on any map, nor mentioned in any book that I know of.  There are no trails leading to these caves.  I found 3 caves, big enough to walk in, 10 ft ceiling.

Anyway, on subject: I have seen one yellow jacket with a Varroa mite attached.  I do not know what to think of that?

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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.