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Author Topic: Sleepy Joe  (Read 975 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2020, 12:41:52 pm »
The difference is, I admitted wrong and let it die, as I am letting this one die with this reply. You didn't.

In that case I will edit. Cider if you do not know, I am letting you know now.  I meant no harm or hurt to you my friend. This was and is not my intention. Clowning around while debating was.  I humbly apologize to you. Please accept my edit and apology as well.





The United States is clearly a house divided. One thing that can not be denied, Mr Trump in the first 3 years, clearly reached out to every faction, friend or foe, accomplished more for EVERY group and faction than one that I am aware of as President since our founding fathers, and still hate and division is what is constantly SPEWED at him from all angles, day and night, night and day.  Not only him but all lovers of our Constitution. Constant, ridicule. Yes the left may very well get what they want. They have been very clever with their power of riding the wave of hate and division that their followers has eagerly given them. But once they get their way,  will they really want what they get?  A new county founded on hate? Who will rescue them? What will  they really thing when they see what they have done to their own country? Who has rescued Venezuela? Or the hundreds of millions of dead Chinese? America, freedom, and all dreams of a individual pursuit of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness will be no more. I see it does not help in trying to persuade or change anyone?s mind differently, because it seems minds have already been made and hearts have already been hardened toward America and what our Flag and way of life has represented. We will see. Is this avenue what you wish for America Cider?

Mark 3:25
King James Version
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
No, what I would wish for if I was an American (God forbid) :wink: would be a more centrist way, not your extreme rightwing evangelical nutters or at the other extreme left-wing socialist/anarchists. Time for a party of the meridian able to use ideas of the right and left for the good of all. If it ever happens and it's a big if it would be time to paint the dark corner white! :cheesy:     


Cider, You are a puzzling person. (edited)

Just how much more central can we get than Donald Trump? He was YOUR champion, the left loved him, until he decided to run for President. ON THE REPUBLICAN TICKET. You on the left did not think he was electable because of his moderate views. You did not think the right would vote for him. (Because as you say we who are Christians are nutters) What you on the left failed to see is we of the right, even the Christian Right that you refer to as nutters, was hoping for a candidate that could bring the Right and Left together. To bring a chance of healing to our land by electing a person that both sides could relate to, that would represent ALL AMERICANS; But no! To the horror of the left (OH no! A Republican candidate may be elected instead of a democrat). Boom instant blind hate toward the man they once admired! Turned on him like a pack of hyenas turning on one of their own out to devour him are still trying to do so. And for what? Why do you hate him so?  I have ask you this before, (why) The best answer that you could give if I remember correctly was "simply because I do not like him"  Hum A (good) reason, do you think ?

Mr Trump has done exactly what you described you would want IF you were an American. He has reached out to every faction, every race of Americans,  offering exactly what you described, (a more centrist way). He has welcomed every citizens group with open arms, both friend and foe. Listened intently, reacted and delivered to each. Yet you on the left, and not just the extreme left, have knocked his hand of friendship down at every turn, spitting on him any time he offers it.  But Cider you know these things. lol  :wink:

First and last teasing sentence edited or erased.
 
   
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 02:38:04 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2020, 08:14:52 am »
Did you feel the same as you read through the EOs from Obama?
I believe EO's are not the answer to a dis functioning Congress.  The only EO that makes any sense to me is an order for Congress to make a decision.  No vacation and no pay  and no benefits until it happens.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2020, 09:24:47 am »
Sorry, Ace, but they are politicians. They aren't capable of common sense.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2020, 04:51:11 pm »
Quote
I believe EO's are not the answer to a dis functioning Congress.  The only EO that makes any sense to me is an order for Congress to make a decision.  No vacation and no pay  and no benefits until it happens.

The Executive can not order Congress to do anything.  Co-equal branches.  Congress has gotten in the habit of not acting.  This has gone on for a long time.  They keep getting re-elected and they do nothing.  Things are done either by way of court order or executive order and neither are law.  The other unconstitutional way things are doing is by agency regulations.  The agencies essentially make law but do not have the authority to make law.  They get away with it because they are created and funded by either the Executive branch or Congress and are given latitude to create regulations so that they can uphold their mandate.

The problem is that they are not elected and are not accountable to the people.  Most of the problems we have faced over the last couple of decades can be laid in the lap of congress and their failure to do their job.  Immigration laws, EPA, budget, you name it.  Congress has failed to either do oversight or make the needed laws.  In the case of the budget, more years than not they have simply failed to do one.  That is clearly a constitutional failure and something that is illegal for them to ignore. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2020, 11:26:34 pm »

> The problem is that they are not elected and are not accountable to the people.  Most of the problems we have faced over the last couple of decades can be laid in the lap of congress and their failure to do their job.  Immigration laws, EPA, budget, you name it.  Congress has failed to either do oversight or make the needed laws.  In the case of the budget, more years than not they have simply failed to do one.  That is clearly a constitutional failure and something that is illegal for them to ignore.


Kathy do you think term limits could help remedy this as you have described of congress?
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2020, 09:14:52 am »
The only way to solve a non functioning government is to eliminate the influence of money.  Pretty much impossible because the law makers are influenced by money so they are not going to make a law that excludes the influence of money.
Quote
The problem is that they are not elected and are not accountable to the people. 
Essentially Congress is elected but not accountable to the people they are accountable to the money.  It is the money that gets them elected.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2020, 03:23:23 pm »
Quote
Kathy do you think term limits could help remedy this as you have described of congress?

We allow congress to not do their job and the solution is to take the job of the people away and limit terms without the bother of voting the members out   :wink:

I would do something different.  I'd do time limits.  Congress gets 3 months of the year to be in DC.  they can choose how they schedule it.  They get paid for those 3 months.  No travel or living expenses.  No lifetime pension for serving.  They are expected to spend the rest of their time in their states, with their constituents, earning a living like the rest of us.
With tech today, there is no emergency that they could not deal with remotely. 

Many states do some version of this. 

The job of congress is to legislate, do oversight, and present a budget.  Right now, they are doing none of those things.

We don't need them making more laws.  The only oversight they bother with is partisan gotcha, and budget?  What's a budget?




They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2020, 03:27:32 pm »
Quote
The only way to solve a non functioning government is to eliminate the influence of money.  Pretty much impossible because the law makers are influenced by money so they are not going to make a law that excludes the influence of money.

Essentially Congress is elected but not accountable to the people they are accountable to the money.  It is the money that gets them elected.

Money has always influenced politics.  I don't know how you would get around that.  The influence of money is an eternal truth.

Congress can be accountable to the people.  We have the ability to dump those that we feel are not, every few years.  People choose to keep putting the same people in office for decades so that bit is on the voters.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2020, 10:53:17 pm »
Kathy I like your response to both my and Aces post. I would love to have you as Governor of my State!
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2020, 11:03:06 pm »
Quote
I would love to have you as Governor of my State!

Nah, I think that if I got into politics I'd end up in jail for murder in short order   :cheesy:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2020, 11:10:38 pm »
Quote
I would love to have you as Governor of my State!

Nah, I think that if I got into politics I'd end up in jail for murder in short order   :cheesy:

  :shocked: :grin:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Milo

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2020, 11:34:49 pm »
The job of congress is to legislate, do oversight, and present a budget.  Right now, they are doing none of those things.

We don't need them making more laws.  The only oversight they bother with is partisan gotcha, and budget?  What's a budget?

Maybe consider the deadlock that occurs between the house of reps and senate. If you elect congress to set a budget and the senate reviews and rejects it, how is it that it can progress?

Although notably different (but not so far apart) to you, In Oz we have the option of double dissolution. If the government in the house of reps passes a law and it is not ratified by our senate (house of review) then the gov can resubmit the same legislation again and negotiate - if again it does not pass, the government can call a full election of both houses and then if they are returned and the senate again rejects the law, the house of reps calls for a joint sitting of both houses to vote on the legislation. By simple majority of the joint sitting the law is deemed to have passed both houses.

This enables (forces?) negotiation between parties and ultimately the voters get the say if it gets taken to an early election.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2020, 11:59:01 pm »
Quote
Maybe consider the deadlock that occurs between the house of reps and senate. If you elect congress to set a budget and the senate reviews and rejects it, how is it that it can progress?

It goes back to the house for something called reconciliation.  They take the house and senate bills and work out a compromise. this is the process with all bills if there is disagreemen.  It is designed that way so that things are slowed down and compromise is forced.
  In more recent years, they have simply skipped the budget altogether and done spending extensions and emergency bills.  When they do manage to get one out it is usually late.
The president also has a roll, in that he presents the budget he would like. After congress does the budget the president can sign it or veto it, and if he does a veto, congress can override him with enough votes.
 The president used to have more power over how money is spent, or not spent, but congress passed a law that took much of that power from him.  Good thing they didn't do that pre-FDR or we'd never have been able to do the things we needed to do to win WW2 in the pacific.  :sad:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Geoff

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2020, 10:03:59 am »

 Ben I nominated Kathy for President years ago and another member of the forum for her running partner !  !
 
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2020, 10:29:15 am »

 Ben I nominated Kathy for President years ago and another member of the forum for her running partner !  !

Haa Haa, I like it. Geoff!  :grin:
I do not know who the person is that you nominated for her running mate, but I have confidence in your judge of character. If that were to come true, I would think Cider and Ace would make a worthy ticket of opponents from the other side! lol.   :shocked:   :wink: 
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Sleepy Joe
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2020, 11:33:35 am »
") This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations."
Pretty much the legacy of his presidency ... These orders say nothing and do nothing.  Just a total waste of paper they are written on.  His idea of less government.  What a moron.
Not only keeping his promise to undo all the "I have a pen and a telephone" orders issued by his predecessor His Royal Highness Barak, but also learned to use the same tools in the face of "My way or no way" Pelosi's obstructive congress.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.