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Author Topic: Covid 19 Isolation  (Read 2372 times)

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2020, 05:47:45 pm »
I see no justification for mandatory masks. I never have, never will.  I see no justification in maskless fools coughing all over me, either.

About 102 years ago there was a big push to get people to stop spitting on the sidewalks to help slow the spread of the flu.  Many people refused to stop out of any courtesy, so now there are laws prohibiting it in many areas. Common courtesy was forced upon them.  Now if someone spits on the sidewalk in front of you, I bet you likely think to yourself that they're filthy animals.  That's how I look at those that think their right to go maskless is more important than my right to stay healthy.

If ya aren't smart enough to wear a mask out of courtesy, I guarantee they will eventually force it on ya.  My mother used to box my ears if I was discourteous.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7

"when participants wore no mask, the median particle emission rate was 0.31 particles/s, with one participant (M6) as high as 0.57 particles/s, and another participant (F3) as low as 0.05 particles/s. This median rate and person-to-person variability are both broadly consistent with previous studies48,51. In contrast,
per second of breathing. The median outward emission rates for these masks were 0.06 and 0.07 particles/s, respectively, representing an approximately sixfold decrease compared to no mask. "


Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline salvo

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2020, 09:05:52 am »
Hi Folks,

You have to see me smiling as I write this.

There should always be at least two sides to a story. This is 'Merica after-all. If we only hear one side, suddenly ^It's the TRUTH. And you must follow the truth^.

It ain't the truth. It's an opinion.

Though I appreciate your efforts on my behalf, my health, safety, and happiness are not dependent upon anyone but me.

When I become that afraid of that bogey man du jour, I'll put on TWO masks. I won't go out. I'll get a food service to deliver only canned food to my house and leave it on the steps. I'll suit up to clean the cans and take them in the house. I won't infect them and they won't infect me.

Hopefully, those opinions don't become so widespread that they do become, de facto,  ^THE TRUTH^.

I'm sorry for your fear, but it ain't my problem.

I'm courteous at work. Only one woman is doubling down on this mask thing. She had plastic sheeting tacked from ceiling to floor around her desk. I avoid her or I wear the mask. Six feet or mask.

All of us are over it We're very casual about the mask. I'm one of the more casual about it. I should be dead by now. I think we all know it's phony, and we (I) work for the government. We don't publicly talk about it. We put on the mask in public... because of the pay check.

A lot of people I interact with think that it's all about getting rid of Trump,.... and preparing the populace for the brave new world.

In my community, population of a bit over 6,000, there have been 21 positive cases, only a couple got sick that we know of (HEPA), and no deaths. Only one guy, my age, is vocal. He got very, very sick, but he's over it. He's not for masks.

This is 'Merica, dammit! Be careful out there!

Sal

Salvo

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2020, 02:05:18 pm »
Geoff anything similar going on in your country as what was just announced in Florida past Friday here in the States? Referring to The Governor of Florida, dismissing all orders concerning covid in his state. According to this report, (if it is accurate), All Covid mandates have been disallowed there, because of reasoning the numbers do not jive. The news report of The State of Florida begins as 6:45. Anyone else know of this, is it true? Cider what about your country any similar reports?

CC for the hearing impaired.

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2020, 04:33:59 pm »
Quote
Referring to The Governor of Florida, dismissing all orders concerning covid in his state.


according to some friends of mine in FL this is pretty accurate.  Makes sense to adjust as new info is learned.  Yes, it's very contagious.  Yes, a lot of people get sick from it.  Yes, the majority do not get very sick and the overwhelming majority survive.  Yes, we should have done as Sweden did and let people decided for themselves how protected they needed to be.  Yes, we will be paying the price for this overreaction for a very long time. 
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 09:33:30 pm by Kathyp »
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Geoff

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2020, 09:05:43 pm »
 This link will clarify what i am writing about Ben !  !https://www.facebook.com/groups/353279955028351/user/1352046250

The start of the bubble was when the hotel isolation of travellers was introduced and secured (?) by private security. Apparently extra staff had to be hired but so many of them were untrained and some were working as much as 2 extra positions on other sites and the carriers of the virus amongst them spread to their families and friends in the suburbs.
   So when the proverbial hit the fan the increased isolation, enforced wearing of masks and the curfews have had a dramatic effect. This spike also brought about closing of state borders virtually isolating us from the rest of the country but as the graph illustrates we may now be getting some relief and freedom.
   It was a pity for so many ( including us ) who had done the hard yards before this that we all had to go back into stricter isolation. Now the repercussions are going through the state government as to who did what (or not ) and to who authorised the shoddy security around the hotels. One minister has already gone ( put under the bus by the premier ) and he is in the you know what up to between his upper lip and nostrils.
   It has been a good illustration as to how carelessness and reckless behaviour led to this mess as the virus seems to be very contagious and my thoughts that the wrong-doers should be made to visit the critical care wards where the victims are struggling for life on ventilators. The monetary penalties have been raised to close to $ 5000.00 per person where restrictions are abused.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2020, 09:14:05 pm »
You are right Geoff this is a real mess. I understand what you are telling me. Get this, one of our Governors, (New York) to be exact, ordered sick positive patients back into nursing homes spreading the disease to the most vulnerable! That is where many of our deaths here in the states occurred! New York I mean.  Hard to believe isn?t it!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 09:26:44 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2020, 09:44:10 pm »
Quote
It has been a good illustration as to how carelessness and reckless behaviour led to this mess as the virus seems to be very contagious and my thoughts that the wrong-doers should be made to visit the critical care wards where the victims are struggling for life on ventilators.

I get this, but here at least it is appearing that the damage done by shutting down is going to outweigh the damage that would have been done if we had followed a more reasonable path.  We have an increase in all social ills, from domestic and child abuse, to suicide and drug/alcohol abuse.  We have businesses that will never recover, money being printed like mad which will trash the dollar, and we don't yet know what the end economic damage will be.

If we had taken a more reasonable approach and done more like Sweden, we would have had a lot of infections no doubt, and we would have had to be careful not to overwhelm the medical system, but we would be in better shape for the long run.  Since the number of vulnerable people is a manageable number, it would have made more sense to suggest to them that they isolate, rather than making the entire population isolate.  As we found out who was most impacted, we failed to adjust for things like school openings even though we have data from other countries that have successfully sent kids back to school.

It may be that if you are an island and have a relatively small population, you can shut things down and come out the other end OK.  When you are not an island, and you have 350 million people, many of them in cities, the idea that you can stop a virus is just stupid.  Slow it down?  sure, but to what end?  To the end we are now starting to get a glimpse of, and it's not pretty.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Geoff

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2020, 11:02:45 pm »
    I try to explain to people Kathy that we are about 26,000,000 compared to about 350 in the US !  !
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2020, 11:26:17 pm »
    I try to explain to people Kathy that we are about 26,000,000 compared to about 350 in the US !  !

Though I rarely post in the Down-under section, (I feel it?s yours to enjoy without my American interfere) lol and I mean that respectfully. I do like to read the post from you folks from down under. As well as some news reports from there.  I think Kathy is right about stopping a corona virus .Isn?t the virus like unto the common cold as far as it?s easily spread and keeping it at bay? I?ll not try and persuade you folks from OZ from doing what you see is best for your country. It is yours to run as you please. I hope you have not one more case there. The cat is out of the bag here. 😊  For America I agree with Kathy.


Let me add I hear that it is even on many small islands now. I can not supply the source however.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Geoff

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2020, 11:45:59 pm »
 We will certainly have more cases Ben, but the results showing in the graph is that the number of deaths and that of the cases is coming together possibly as people infected at the top of the spike are now succumbing. My prediction is that the number of deaths will soon pass that of the cases for a short time. You are welcome on the Downunder site anytime !  !
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2020, 12:10:53 am »
We will certainly have more cases Ben, but the results showing in the graph is that the number of deaths and that of the cases is coming together possibly as people infected at the top of the spike are now succumbing. My prediction is that the number of deaths will soon pass that of the cases for a short time. You are welcome on the Downunder site anytime !  !

>We will certainly have more cases Ben, but the results showing in the graph is that the number of deaths and that of the cases is coming together possibly as people infected at the top of the spike are now succumbing. My prediction is that the number of deaths will soon pass that of the cases for a short time.

Sorry to hear that Geoff. Wishing you all the best.


>You are welcome on the Downunder site anytime !  !

Thank you my friend!
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2020, 01:06:38 pm »
Yeah, not trying to suggest that others should do something different.  Just pointing out that if shutting down is what a place has chosen to do, they are going to have to stay shut down until there is no virus or until there is a vaccine that is effective and available to the world.

In the mean time, for the US, we have done damage that will take decades to overcome...if it ever is.  The lives lost and ruined as collateral damage matter too. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2020, 01:34:06 pm »
Yeah, not trying to suggest that others should do something different.  Just pointing out that if shutting down is what a place has chosen to do, they are going to have to stay shut down until there is no virus or until there is a vaccine that is effective and available to the world.

In the mean time, for the US, we have done damage that will take decades to overcome...if it ever is.  The lives lost and ruined as collateral damage matter too.

>Yeah, not trying to suggest that others should do something different.


I did. not think you were Kathy, my apology. I should have made that clear. But get this.

Dr. Fauci Says You'll Still Need to Wear Masks?After Vaccinewww.yahoo.com ? lifestyle ? dr-fauci-says-youll-still-110127650
4 days ago - Dr. Fauci Says You'll Still Need to Wear Masks?After Vaccine ... We'll Be Wearing Face Masks Far Into 2021, Even With A COVID-19 Vaccine ... trend, as if we needed yet another excuse not to get dressed in the morning.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/dr-fauci-says-youll-still-110127650.html
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 12:45:50 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Milo

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2020, 07:04:11 pm »
The start of the bubble was when the hotel isolation of travellers was introduced and secured (?) by private security. Apparently extra staff had to be hired but so many of them were untrained and some were working as much as 2 extra positions on other sites and the carriers of the virus amongst them spread to their families and friends in the suburbs.
 
Now the repercussions are going through the state government as to who did what (or not ) and to who authorised the shoddy security around the hotels.

It has been a good illustration as to how carelessness and reckless behaviour led to this mess...

The police refused to do security for the quarantine, they didn?t want to be babysitters. That?s already come out in the enquiry and is on public record. So the other options? Defence personal or private security.

The Minister for Health technically has responsibility for the control of the public health and well-being act in Victoria. It?s a responsibility they take on when they accept the position from the state governor. In practice these elements of incident response may be discussed by a group of people that make up the Incident Management Team (IMT) and delegated. However the Incident Controller (IC), appointed by the IMT (or higher authorised officer), has ultimate and legal responsibility for the event.

So it depends on what level of incident they declared and who was IC. In fires and floods the IC would be someone from Emergency Management Victoria. As it?s health related and the provisions of the Health Act have been used, it would in my mind be the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) that would probably have had control of the incident. It is therefore the Minister in control of that portfolio

Department of Premier & Cabinet would of course have been consulted, but with one arm of government (policing) declining to take on a variation to their role (security) the decisions fall back to the Minister in charge (health)

The premier could of course have instructed (via cabinet), the minister of police to direct the commissioner of police to take on the role of security, both could have refused and both could have been given the sack and other appointees installed that would then do the job, but would cabinet go through that political shite-storm over security? No, so it fell back to contractors

And the thing here is contract labour here doesn?t get the benefit of personal leave (sick leave). If they are ill they continue to work as in many cases they live pay check to pay check.

TL;DR Police refused to do Security, Department of Health had to rely on contractors. Minister for Health is in charge of the Health act, not the Premier of Victoria.

Offline Milo

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2020, 07:06:20 pm »
Isn?t the virus like unto the common cold as far as it?s easily spread and keeping it at bay?

Yes it is

But to be more accurate there isn?t any virus called the ?common cold?. These symptoms are caused by many viruses including; rhinovirus, coronaviruses (multiple strains), adenovirus, influenza, parainfluenza, respiratory syncytial virus, enterovirus and depending on the research a third are unknowns

Offline Geoff

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2020, 08:29:45 pm »
 
  I think it is time to refer back to your original post on the 22nd. of January Ben to follow the progress of the story !  !
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2020, 10:00:02 pm »
Maybe you meant March 22? If we recall Mr Van taught us Hydroxychloroquine with added zinc it the trick. The first I heard of this was om MedCram. I posted that report here and that is when Mr Van enlightened us. Just recently I posted a report of the brave Doctor from China that told again of this and Mr Trump commented on her report and for the first time twitter and the others took his post down. Strange isn't it.


Van,  BAABEEs, Member,  check this out! The next question; Is this drug readily available?  Is this one of the drugs that fits into the 90 percent of drugs, manufactured in China? If so, will China have it in sufficient amounts, and be willing for world wide distribution in a moments notice? Are there drug companies which make, or can make, and produce mass amounts of this drug here in America making it readily available for Americans as well as other countries?  Are these reasonable questions?
Thanks Phillip


« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 10:33:48 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2020, 10:10:39 pm »
Geoff I am thinking this is the first video that I posted of MedCram which explains precisely how Hydroxychloroquine with added zinc works. This was explained so simply that even I  could understand what was being taught.


For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Geoff

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2020, 10:42:14 pm »

   My mistake Ben, this is the link that you put up but I related the date to Kathy's reply.
         
         https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-51148303                                                       

                                  Sorry about that .
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2020, 11:14:01 pm »
Yes, thank you Geoff for the reminder. That article shows we have come along way in understanding this virus.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.