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Author Topic: Covid 19 Isolation  (Read 1212 times)

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2020, 10:35:25 am »
iddee, wearing a mask is a courtesy, whether it's mandated or not.  It's like not spitting on the floor of your neighbor's house.  It's the right thing to do. 

No, not even the N95 mask can stop everything from passing through the fabric, but it sure slows it down.  The virus cells don't travel all by themselves.  The virus has to catch a ride on something like the water particles you expel every time you exhale or talk.  The masks are fine enough to catch and stop the majority of the vapor, droplets and big spits, so the virus cells are stopped, too.  Yes, some particles and virus do make it through, but the quantity has been greatly reduced, drastically reducing the number of virus cells your body has to argue with.  It's a very simple concept, masks work.

I'm a libertarian.  I get severe heartburn when any government tries to limit my liberty in any way, including mask mandates.  OTOH, I am in a high risk category with age, heart condition and now cancer treatment all weakening my immune system.  I wear a mask whenever I am around anyone, and I demand others wear a mask around me.  If they don't I will avoid them "like the plague".
I refuse 'mandates' to wear masks, but I detest those people that refuse to wear masks when around other people as inconsiderate, rude and uncivilized. 

I also consider refusal to wear a mask in my immediate vicinity to be a danger to my health and safety, and as a personal attack.   CV19 would likely kill me.  I reserve the right to defend myself from any rude SOB that thinks his "God-given freedom" is more important than my God-given life.
Winter is coming.

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Offline iddee

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2020, 12:01:40 pm »
I can't disagree with most of what you say, but there are exceptions to all rules.

I have ischemic heart disease, chronic bronchitis,  and emphysema.  I sleep on oxygen because I cannot breathe natural air when lying on my back. Would you put me in the same SOB category when I refuse to restrict my air flow?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2020, 03:15:18 pm »
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To those who think that you can't it is stupid.  To those that think that you can it is common sense.  It buys time.  Valuable time that was wasted by the bumbling fool in the white house.  I wonder what the world would face if the same complacent attitude was in place for AIDS and ebola.  Your right Kathy stupidity is a big problem.  It makes all problems worse

buys time for what?  Everything done needs evaluation.  that evaluation has to include consequences.  The first point would be that you can't stop a virus.  Temporarily, you may slow the spread.  This is valuable if your medical system is at risk.  Beyond that, it simply lengthens the time a population has to deal with the virus.  This puts the most vulnerable at risk for a longer period of time.  We DO want to protect those who are most at risk for serious illness. 

Consequences:  We are already seeing an increase in drug/alcohol abuse, domestic abuse, suicide, other mental illness issues.  We do not yet know how many will be impacted negativly by not being able to have medical tests, cancer diagnosis, and in some cases, cancer treatment.

17,000 possible child abuse cases are referred from schools each year.  That is potentially 17,000 kids who are living in an abusive environment, not going to school, and invisiable.

We are already getting data from places that locked down and those which didn't.  There is no difference in outcome.  In fact, many of the places that locked down have done worse than those which didn't. 
Hawaii is now having an increase in positive tests.  Same with Austrailia, New Zealand, and several European countries.

Sweden peaked in June and has very few cases now. 

We don't know what our infection numbers are because of deceptive/inept reporting.  We don't know what our death rate is for the same reason. 

AIDS was primarily a lifestyle driven disease.  Even though it did extend outside those high risk lifestyles, it was never a danger to the general public.  There were specfic things you had to do to get it, and most people could avoid those things. 
Ebola was far more deadly, but again, not a risk to the general public in this country.  Also not as contagious unless you were exposed to body fluids from a later stage infected person.

Explain the wasted time bit please.


They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2020, 05:57:52 pm »
I can't disagree with most of what you say, but there are exceptions to all rules.

I have ischemic heart disease, chronic bronchitis,  and emphysema.  I sleep on oxygen because I cannot breathe natural air when lying on my back. Would you put me in the same SOB category when I refuse to restrict my air flow?
Yeah, I forgot to put my COPD on my list too.  darn tobacco, anyway.  You don't likely spend a lot of time around other people anyway, because Lord knows what you might catch, and when you do, you likely keep your distance.  I certainly do.  but I could be wrong.

The SOBs are the ones that run around with the flag claiming they have more right to go mask free than I have to go virus free.  You know, those on TV news holding Trumper signs.  Like the contractor that came in this morning looking to pick up some equipment.  I asked him to put on a mask,  He said "I just need to get these parts. It's just for a minute."  He was right in my face.  I pointed to the gate and told him to come back when he has a mask.  He called my boss.  My boss cursed him out and banned him from my yard and warehouse for 14 days. 

I know you're pro-2A.  so am I  We both know that a shooter is 100% liable and responsible for every bullet that leaves his gun, for every bullet is potentially lethal.   Anti-maskers are responsible for every droplet of moisture that leaves his face, for the same reason.  As I said, I reserve the right to defend myself from those who don't care if they get me or others sick.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline iddee

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2020, 06:24:07 pm »
OK. If his mask stops his germs from going out, why doesn't your mask keep them from coming in? In other words, does the mask protect the wearer or the other person? I'm still asking that same question.

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2020, 09:36:30 pm »
Quote
I know you're pro-2A.  so am I  We both know that a shooter is 100% liable and responsible for every bullet that leaves his gun, for every bullet is potentially lethal.   Anti-maskers are responsible for every droplet of moisture that leaves his face, for the same reason.  As I said, I reserve the right to defend myself from those who don't care if they get me or others sick.

I am ambivalent on the mask thing.  Wear them.  Don't wear them.  I don't think they make much difference.  I do think the objection to them is less about the mask and more about all of the mandates, many of them stupid, that states have imposed.  I do not like the fact that masks are mandated.  I think a business, or person that is at risk, has the right to ask others to wear them or to wear one if it makes them feel better.  I do not think that the anger about the mandates is a Trump supporter thing, but I do think it will drive more to Trump.

Thing is, for a virus (which does not need droplets to spread) masks are of marginal value and only if worn, handled, and disposed of properly.  No one does those things.  If you are wearing one or insisting on others wearing them because you think it is going to keep you safe, a better option for you is to not go out.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2020, 10:01:21 pm »
This is sad, I just read the post on this thread.  My e-friends: Hops and ID have medical conditions, some most serious.  I hate that, I want my friends to feel healthy, be healthy and sadden when I read otherwise.  Both Hops and ID are knowledgeable fellas whom I have grown to respect and look forward to their post.  I see so much in common with my own ideology as I read post from Hops and ID.

Well, I want both of you to know: I am saddened to hear medical conditions persists.  Hops, take care of yourself, Buddy!!!  ID take care of yourself, Friend!!!!

Blessings to each of you fellas.

Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Geoff

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2020, 07:58:30 pm »
 

   Well there you go, this thread started out in one direction and look where we finished up. Certainly got some varied feed-back but back to the original post.
   If you are wondering about a member we have not heard from for a while, just post a reference to the member and I feel sure someone will come up with an answer.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2020, 11:02:40 am »
N95 mask:  the number ninety five mean 95 percent of the particles are filtered.  The N stands for non organic particles such as oil vapors, smoke.  The N means typical particles are 95 percent removed in a surgical setting.  N will afford zero protection; from a house fire or vapors from chemicals or gasses.

N95 has been shown to filter nanoparticles.

Changing subject a little: mondera rx is working on a vaccine that is mRNA based.  This is new vaccine technology that scares the beegeebers out of me due to lack of long term unknowns.  Russia just developed a vaccine that is adeno virus based caring markers for corvid-19 and affords much less risk than mRNA.

There is no way I would accept a vaccine that is mRNA based.  This is uncharted water and Congress has given release of liability to these vaccine developers. 
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2020, 11:39:23 am »
N95 mask:  the number ninety five mean 95 percent of the particles are filtered.  The N stands for non organic particles such as oil vapors, smoke.  The N means typical particles are 95 percent removed in a surgical setting.  N will afford zero protection; from a house fire or vapors from chemicals or gasses.

N95 has been shown to filter nanoparticles.

Changing subject a little: mondera rx is working on a vaccine that is mRNA based.  This is new vaccine technology that scares the beegeebers out of me due to lack of long term unknowns.  Russia just developed a vaccine that is adeno virus based caring markers for corvid-19 and affords much less risk than mRNA.

There is no way I would accept a vaccine that is mRNA based.  This is uncharted water and Congress has given release of liability to these vaccine developers.

Thanks for the information Mr Van. It is a blessing to have you here.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Milo

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2020, 11:21:44 am »
Face coverings limit hand-mouth communication.

The gaps around poorly fitted masks make it irrelevant as to which type you wear.

I wear everything from P2?s to full SCBA in my work. If it?s not fitted correctly you are kidding yourself.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2020, 11:28:34 am »
Someone ask a tough question. The question was; Do you really think If COVID could escape a level 4 research center in Wuhan China, did I really think my little mask will stop or slow down the virus?   😁
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2020, 12:04:45 pm »
OK. If his mask stops his germs from going out, why doesn't your mask keep them from coming in? In other words, does the mask protect the wearer or the other person? I'm still asking that same question.

Sorry, I've been off-grid for several days on R&R.

As I explained above, the virus doesn't travel independently.  It must catch a ride on another vehicle such as a water droplet or dust particle.   The masks can't stop anything as small the virus cell, but it can AND DOES stop the majority of the particles that the virus rides upon in both directions!  There are tons of videos all over the internet that demonstrate this concept.  It is a fact, masks work both ways, despite the conspiracy theorists blustering.  Is it 100% successful?  NO.  But the reduction in transmission of this, OR ANY virus has been proven beyond any doubt.

Now again back to the right to go mask-free;  There are practical limits to every right, generally where practicing that right can result in harm to another citizen..  1st amendment, you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater because it can harm other people in the resulting stampede.  You can't shoot a gun willy-nilly, for your bullet may hit an innocent in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Your right to swing your arm ends at the tip of my nose, and your right to go mask-free ends when your breath hits my face.
Wearing a mask is a common courtesy in public.  It is required anywhere near me, and should be worn by everyone that comes around you.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline salvo

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2020, 10:55:27 pm »
Hi Folks,

Well, yesterday I got that new Russian Covid vaccine and so far I have no side efectoski secundarioski Президент Российской Федерации.

Sal
Salvo

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2020, 12:03:36 am »
Hi Folks,

Well, yesterday I got that new Russian Covid vaccine and so far I have no side efectoski secundarioski Президент Российской Федерации.

Sal
Hahahaha!!  :cheesy:
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2020, 12:19:08 am »
Ну, Сэл, о чем ты, товарищ, лол! Неужели вакцинация началась так быстро? лол 😬
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline salvo

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2020, 07:39:42 am »
Hi Folks,

I'm going to print something here to exemplify just why Americans, in general, are disliked around the world:

Hi ya Pal! Listen. Me no speako Frencho. Capisce?

Good one Ben. When I searched for a translation I got the message: THAT WEBPAGE IS NOT SECURE.

I was scared to go further.

Sal
Salvo

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2020, 08:23:31 am »
Hi Folks,

I'm going to print something here to exemplify just why Americans, in general, are disliked around the world:

Hi ya Pal! Listen. Me no speako Frencho. Capisce?

Good one Ben. When I searched for a translation I got the message: THAT WEBPAGE IS NOT SECURE.

I was scared to go further.

Sal

Translation:
Well, Sal, what are you talking about, comrade, lol! Did vaccination start so quickly? lol 😬
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2020, 01:49:05 am »
>Tell me, Ace, does the mask protect the wearer or the people around them?

The pulmonologist I spoke to says the masks do nothing at all.  They protect no one.
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Offline Milo

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Re: Covid 19 Isolation
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2020, 05:28:26 am »
>Tell me, Ace, does the mask protect the wearer or the people around them?

The pulmonologist I spoke to says the masks do nothing at all.  They protect no one.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083