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Author Topic: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?  (Read 401 times)

Offline crmauch

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Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« on: July 30, 2020, 11:28:30 am »
I just finished an inspection.  I had clipped and or strapped the comb to the top bars (I'm running a top-bar hive).  And where the comb seemed well attached, I attempted to remove strapping and or zip ties (used for the hair clipped ones).  I wanted to get them off as they're forcing space between  the top bars I wanted to eliminate.  Ended up with more collapsed/fallen comb. 

Just frustrated.

Chris
Chris

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2020, 12:30:10 pm »
I just finished an inspection.  I had clipped and or strapped the comb to the top bars (I'm running a top-bar hive).  And where the comb seemed well attached, I attempted to remove strapping and or zip ties (used for the hair clipped ones).  I wanted to get them off as they're forcing space between  the top bars I wanted to eliminate.  Ended up with more collapsed/fallen comb. 

Just frustrated.

Chris

Sorry for the mess.  Can you explain (used for the hair clipped ones). I suppose that is something that is used to hold comb to frame in top bar hives?
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline crmauch

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2020, 04:25:18 pm »
Ahh, the hair clips.  Probably wouldn't do them again, but I didn't do it the way it was supposed to be done.  Two potential sizes, very large and somewhat smaller (smaller still cover most of index finger if clipped around (that's to indicate approximate size).  Clips have holes in handle you run zip ties through.  You clip into the comb (doing some damage), and then tighten the zips against the bar.  Supposed to have two clips per bar.  Once the bees have attached comb, you can chose to remove the clips or not (they'll be embedded in the comb.)

I think part of my problem (besides my clumsiness and inexperience), is that both the clips and the binding tape (which acts as a cradle, were better designed for cutouts where the comb is older.  As this was a swarm, all the comb is new, and I think therefore more delicate.

Chris
Chris

Online The15thMember

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2020, 04:38:51 pm »
I've certainly had days like that, where I feel like all I'm doing is screwing up the bees' home for them to have to fix when I'm gone.  There is definitely a learning curve as far as how much interference is beneficial and how much is harmful.  A few weeks ago I attempted an artificial brood break, and let me tell you, I'm never doing that again.  That was definitely more harm than good.  It took way too long, and was stressful on the bees, and it took forever to clean out the frames to give them back.  But as long as we're learning from our mistakes, every experience is beneficial. 

I think part of my problem (besides my clumsiness and inexperience), is that both the clips and the binding tape (which acts as a cradle, were better designed for cutouts where the comb is older.  As this was a swarm, all the comb is new, and I think therefore more delicate.
   
New white comb is extremely fragile, especially if it's hot out.  I have fortunately never had a significantly sized comb fall while inspecting, but I have been darn close, like comb bending at almost 90 degrees close.     
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Offline paus

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2020, 07:57:32 pm »
If you want the comb to stay near or touching the top of the frame.  Rubber band the comb in and take a small stick match stick or a little larger twig and twist it in the rubber band at the bottom of the comb and jamb it in the comb so it doesn't come unwound.  The bees start attaching at the top rather than the bottom.

Offline crmauch

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2020, 10:43:41 pm »
If you want the comb to stay near or touching the top of the frame.  Rubber band the comb in and take a small stick match stick or a little larger twig and twist it in the rubber band at the bottom of the comb and jamb it in the comb so it doesn't come unwound.  The bees start attaching at the top rather than the bottom.

I'll consider that.  My concern was that the rubber bands wouldn't be big enough.
Chris

Offline maggie_lee

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2020, 10:35:08 am »
I almost cried the first time I inspected my top-bar because of all the comb I broke ! 

But dang if two weeks later they hadn't fixed it all and cleaned it all up and a bunch of them who could remember the Great Disaster were dead anyway 😀

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2020, 11:01:28 am »
A fellow member here, BobSim, runs top bar hives and he made up clips to hold the comb to the bar. He uses rabbit wire. He cuts them so that the wire has 1/2? barbs sticking out both sides and bends the wire so that it goes over the top bar and holds the comb until the bees glue it in place. It works much better than the hair clips.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2020, 11:15:12 am »
Is a top bar hive and a long Lang basically the same type hive except the type of frame used?
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2020, 10:29:59 pm »
Not really. A long lang has a full frame that can bee put in an extractor. A top bar cannot. You can not flip top bar frames around like you can a long Lang.
Jim Altmiller

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2020, 12:26:02 am »
If the brood comb is older, it might be rubbery enough to use only the zip tie, or wire like Jim said.

Electrical wire is nice because it will hold its position and copper ground wire from Romex is food safe :)

Or if you have a friend with a chop saw...a couple of these spares can fix a comb.  They're good comb guides too, keep combs straight if you stay ahead of the curve...haha...catenary curve that is ;-)

Offline crmauch

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2020, 01:48:06 am »
If the brood comb is older, it might be rubbery enough to use only the zip tie, or wire like Jim said.

Electrical wire is nice because it will hold its position and copper ground wire from Romex is food safe :)

Or if you have a friend with a chop saw...a couple of these spares can fix a comb.  They're good comb guides too, keep combs straight if you stay ahead of the curve...haha...catenary curve that is ;-)

I've thought about having an occasional frame like this.
Chris

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2020, 11:01:48 pm »
This is why I chose to make long langstroths instead of a top bar.

They both are cheap to make.
They both allow the beek to only lift one frame at a time.
They both uncover only a part of the hive at a time.
They both lay out the comb like folders in a long filing cabinet.
They both have similar management practices.

However...
Long langstroths use standard langstroth frames (I use the standard deep frame)
Standard frame comb don't break as easily as top bar frames. It is attached on 4 sides, not just 1.
Standard frame don't get attached to the hive wall.
Standard frames can be put into an extractor.
Standard frames can be switched between any of my hives.
standard frames can be received from or given to another beek, which I did recently.

It seems to me that long langs have all the strengths and none of the drawbacks of top bar hives.
(I probably just started an argument)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2020, 08:38:27 am »
Oh yes Bob you are so argumentative... not!
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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2020, 01:00:30 pm »
Going off the topic title....
Wise words of an old mentor
....., the bees spend al lot of time and effort fixing whatever the beekeeper did to them.
Keep that in mind whenever you open a hive. Have purpose for being in there and do only what is necessary.  Only then can you tell how good or how bad your bees are. If you have to fix alot or intervene every time, they are bad bees and get those genetics out of your operation.  If the nest is well organized and nothing for you to do each time, great bees, breed more of those. .....,

All that said, there are times that yes the beekeeper has to be really disruptive to correct a knarly situation.  Never feel bad about that.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2020, 12:20:08 pm »
>Do you ever feel you're doing more harm than good?

Often.
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