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Author Topic: What are the Chances?  (Read 175 times)

Offline Beeboy01

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What are the Chances?
« on: June 30, 2020, 04:02:31 pm »
Here's another laying worker question. I split a hive about four weeks ago and so far it hasn't produced a queen. About once a week I've been swapping out a frame or two with other hives and adding young brood to the split hoping they will make some queen cells which so far hasn't happened.

 The split is a full deep with six or seven frames of brood and honey and foundation for the rest. Today during my inspection I spotted what looked like a small amount of younger drone brood along the bottom of a frame which might indicate a laying worker.
 
  I opened up one of the other hives looking for more young brood and found two unhatched queen cells, probably swarmers from their location on the bottom of the frame. Figuring it can't hurt I move the frame with the queen cells on it over to the split. I also tried to disrupt the split by rearranging the frames some before adding the frame with the queen cells.

  Didn't think I had many other options unless I set up a nuc with the queen cells but I'm short on equipment to go that route. I didn't mark the frames I was swapping over during the last two weeks so there is a possibility that the drone brood came along for the ride during the last frame swap which would be the best case.

  What do you the chances are that the hive will accept the queen cells, I'm hoping better than 50/50.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: What are the Chances?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2020, 05:26:57 pm »
I?d say better than 50/50 although not sure how I could defend a number for percentage of acceptance.  Let?s say ON A MORE LIKELY THAN NOT BASIS to accept queen cells.

Bees can keep a person guessing:  I am dealing with hive with no eggs or larva and I could not find a queen.  I believe this hive swarmed a couple of weeks ago?  So with no queen in site, I added grafted larva.  No queens cells were made from the grafts.  So I am guessing the queen was on a mating flight when I inspected.  This afternoon when it cools, I will inspect and determine what is going on with this hive???

Cheers

Update 4:30:  I found the queen on frame 10, a food frame.  No eggs, no larva, plenty of stores.  So, give this queen another week.  This particular hive was started from a package last March, a support quality hive.  It?s a fun, challenging hive with a hard to spot dark queen.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 06:35:45 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: What are the Chances?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2020, 07:28:13 pm »
I'm hopeful that it will work they were nice looking queen cells. I would of liked to move one into a mini nuc but they were stuck together at the base. Now comes the hard part, the wait. ;) I think the bees laugh at us sometimes.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What are the Chances?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2020, 01:02:24 am »
Beeboy, was the two capped queen swarm cells the only queen cells in the donor hive?  Did you check to make sure you still had a queen in this donor hive? Many times once cells are capped the hive will go ahead and swarm. (from what I understand). It might not have been a bad idea to cut one out and leave the other in the donor hive at least giving the donor hive a 50/50 chance at survival if mama has already swarmed? On the queenless hive, I personally would have written it off after that length of time along with the four frames of time extended attempts, and with no queen cell developed.

Hindsight is 20-20 what you could have done instead is bought a mated queen, used the four frames of brood and by now you might have a double 5 frame nuc ready to go into a ten frame brood box, with a virgouris laying queen an a hive on the grow?
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What are the Chances?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2020, 01:11:23 am »
Mr Van I am glad you found your queen. I had the same thing happen. My situation may be different as this is a swarm caught in late Spring. My little set up only has 6 frames of bees. I added a two day supply pollen patty, fresh every two days in order to hold down the SHB. Also added sugar syrup, and she went back to laying! I think it is probable that we had a slight knock off of flow therefore she shut down temporarily? What do you think?
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: What are the Chances?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2020, 10:54:44 am »
BenFramed, When I inspected the donor hive I found two freshly hatched Q cells on the frame adjacent to the one I moved so I'm thinking that it has a virgin queen. Looks like my timing was right for a change. I'm not sure if the donor hive swarmed, but it probably did. It's population looks good and I spotted some young brood even though it wasn't a complete inspection. I'll plan a biweekly check on that hive to assess how it's making out. The split I'm leaving alone for at least two weeks till the queen has time to mate and start laying.
   The split was population control for one hive that took off about a month ago and I prefer letting them make a queen. It's kind of my personal preference. I've found that I'm most comfortable with four or five hives so massive bee yard growth isn't my main goal, maintaining a workable number of hives is what I work for.  I've never had a lot of luck with purchasing local queens, they seem to fail within 6-8 months if they even make it that far while the queens from my yard are good for over a year.
  Thanks for the help.
 

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: What are the Chances?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2020, 12:55:33 pm »
Mr Van I am glad you found your queen. I had the same thing happen. My situation may be different as this is a swarm caught in late Spring. My little set up only has 6 frames of bees. I added a two day supply pollen patty, fresh every two days in order to hold down the SHB. Also added sugar syrup, and she went back to laying! I think it is probable that we had a slight knock off of flow therefore she shut down temporarily? What do you think?

Good morning Mr. Ben.  Agreed there is definitely a dearth in my area and incoming or lack of food definitely affects how my queens lay.  However I would expect some brood just for maintaining the colony population.  The package hive I was discussing had zero, I mean not a single egg, larva, nor capped brood.  I was watching this hive to prevent a laying worker situation.  Anyway, there is a queen, all is well.

Hope your queen cells hatch and get mated BeeBoy.  I would estimate in two weeks there should be eggs and larva although I don?t know the age of the queen cells so could be sooner.

Cheers everyone.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: What are the Chances?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2020, 04:08:05 pm »
Van, I'll guess that the queen cells were ready to hatch since the two on the next frame over had hatched recently. Two weeks seems to be about right before any eggs appear. I'll monitor the hives entrances and check for pollen coming in. Need to work on some equipment next, got caught with my pants down this year. LOL 

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What are the Chances?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2020, 09:03:26 pm »
Beebohy, I hope this turns out perfectly for you. Let us know how it works out se we all can benefit. Thanks.

Mr Van, same for you and please keep us informed as well. Thanks to you as well.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.