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Author Topic: Cut-out bees with Nosema?  (Read 357 times)

Offline JurassicApiary

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Cut-out bees with Nosema?
« on: June 14, 2020, 12:05:39 am »
Hi folks, I did a cut out two days ago at a bar in Honolulu and yesterday mid morning I went out to check on them in their new hive and saw lots of orientation flights, however I noticed an unusual amount of poo on the top of the cover. I?m suspicious that may be Nosema. They were also drip lines of poo on the side of the hive exterior and also on the interior sides of my vacuum box

The only other thing I could think of that may be to cause is the syrup that I gave them via a spray bottle during the cut out was at the end of its useful life and may have been turning, and perhaps that has given many of them the poops?

Looking forward to hearing many of your thoughts.  The Barbees? hive is currently situated in my apiary with my other hives and I?m planning on relocating it to prevent spreading it via drifting if it?s Nosema. Thoughts?

<I?m sorry the photo is sideways, I don?t know why...that?s not the orientation it was taken...>
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cut-out bees with Nosema?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2020, 12:38:42 am »
I am anxious to hear what the experts have to say about this.  Thanks for posting.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Cut-out bees with Nosema?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2020, 08:26:52 am »
Jurassic,
Sounds like the suction on the beevac  box was a little too much. They are still recovering from the removal.
I would just wait and see.
If they were sick, the entrance of their old location would bee covered with yellow stains.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Robo

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Re: Cut-out bees with Nosema?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2020, 09:44:20 am »
Firstly, assuming poo is nosema is perhaps jumping a little too far.   It is like assuming a sore throat is throat cancer.   Yes poo is one symptom of nosema, but there are also many other things that can cause it.

I agree with Jim, give a few days to see, like he said it would not have manifested in one day,  so their old entrance would have shown signs.    How was the brood pattern when you did the removal,  was it a nice solid pattern or spotty?   How long did you have then contained before they could fly?   If there was a lot of orientation flights after being cooped up for a while that could have also played a part.   If you are really concerned, the best way to know for sure is have the bees tested.   

I usually find feral colonies are pretty healthy.  Mother nature does a good job culling out the weak.    Of course there are always the rare exceptions so it is worth keeping an eye on them.    Cut outs are very stressful on a colony.
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Offline JurassicApiary

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Re: Cut-out bees with Nosema?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2020, 04:47:13 pm »
Jurassic,
Sounds like the suction on the beevac  box was a little too much. They are still recovering from the removal.
I would just wait and see.
If they were sick, the entrance of their old location would bee covered with yellow stains.
Jim Altmiller

Thank you for your feedback, Jim.  It seems to have tapered back.  I had the vacuum set a little strong at first but dialed it back quickly as as they were only in the wall for about two months and the comb was soft.  This took longer to suck them all up as I had to go over them repeatedly, but it preserved the comb.  There was not staining outside at the entrance.

Firstly, assuming poo is nosema is perhaps jumping a little too far.   It is like assuming a sore throat is throat cancer.   Yes poo is one symptom of nosema, but there are also many other things that can cause it.

I agree with Jim, give a few days to see, like he said it would not have manifested in one day,  so their old entrance would have shown signs.    How was the brood pattern when you did the removal,  was it a nice solid pattern or spotty?   How long did you have then contained before they could fly?   If there was a lot of orientation flights after being cooped up for a while that could have also played a part.   If you are really concerned, the best way to know for sure is have the bees tested.   

I usually find feral colonies are pretty healthy.  Mother nature does a good job culling out the weak.    Of course there are always the rare exceptions so it is worth keeping an eye on them.    Cut outs are very stressful on a colony.

Thanks for your feedback, Robo.  Yeah, perhaps I jumped the gun on the nosema thought, I just had not seen this occur with other removals I've done and of course with lots of poo all over everything, my mind went to the dark side...and to nosema.  This was the first colony I removed from in the inner-city so I wondered if they had come in contact with pesticides, fungi or other chemicals which might have caused them problems.

Laying pattern was normal.  It wasn't super dense, but nothing of concern.  I cut them out at about 3pm in the afternoon and had them hived and in my apiary that same night and opened the entrance so they were free to egress and orient as early as they desired the next morning.

There doesn't seem to bee much more of the poo occurring so perhaps it was from the vacuum as Jim mentioned, or stress as you suggested, but whatever the reason, they do seem to be doing better now.  Will continue to keep an eye on them.

Offline Robo

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Re: Cut-out bees with Nosema?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2020, 08:19:21 pm »
Glad to hear that it seems to be getting better on it's own.    It is good to be observant and spot things that don't seem right before it is too late.   Often time I will see people say the hive looked fine until ......   When you can tell it had been failing for quite some time.

Hope they turn out well for you.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison