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Author Topic: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.  (Read 855 times)

Offline CapnChkn

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"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2020, 07:38:49 am »
Capt,
I suspect that problems like this hornet are being brought into this country to cause problems for our beekeepers. The Chinese have been trying for years to under cut honey prices to put beekeepers out of business.
Jim Altmiller

Offline CapnChkn

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2020, 09:52:46 am »
Hey Jim!

I don't think it's actually a conspiracy, it's more of an Industrial disease.  We've been introducing negative species to our environment for hundreds of years.  Sometimes intentional.  You live in Jacksonville, and I spent 30 years there, from 1983 until 2009.  I watched the woods go from mostly Palmetto, to a species they call "Winter Honeysuckle" up here in the Tennessee valley.  While surveying, I cut through miles of the stuff.

Using that logic, we would also have to use the invasion of SHB as an attempt to corner the honey market by African honey producers, which I can tell you by correspondence with a Nigerian beekeeper, is almost non-existent.  This guy heard he could increase his honey production by using Langstroths, and wanted to know how to make one, because they didn't have a market there.  He still uses KTBH.

I suppose the Chinese or other aggressors from Asia may have introduced the hornet, but that's kind of a "doomsday" machine scenario.  That would reduce the actual production of honey in these environments, because the only species that has a natural defense against these monsters is Apis Cerana.  They are honey producers, and used commercially, but not as productive as A. Mellifera.

I speculate they hitched a ride on a cargo ship, along with all the crappy, cheap, Chinese junk that gets shipped here for pennies in volume.
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2020, 10:22:28 am »
I think one or both above are correct.  On a good note, the Asian hornet can easily be excluded from a hive due to its size.  However, the forager honeybees would be helpless.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2020, 10:44:41 am »
I?m not sure but I am thinking they wait on the outside for bees to enter and exit? I watched a National Geographic film or something similar far before I began beekeeping and it seems from a vague memory, this is what I watched. Is this the same creature as the Japanese hornet?

There is a fish running lose in Florida called the snakehead, I do not know much about it except it also came from the east. I doubt it hitched on a cargo ship, and no pun intended. There are many invasive species here now. All with their own story of how they got here.
That?s one of the problems with dealing with governments which have very different ideologies than our own. Suspicion can be easily surmised and sometimes rightly so.

I think Ron Paul hit it right, trade is good. But at the same time under solid guidelines and rules which must be closely followed.

Offline Seeb

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Offline CapnChkn

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2020, 11:19:50 am »
Yeah, a lot of the invasive species in Florida are introduced through the pet trade.  Pythons, Walking catfish, Snakeheads, and Geckos were all released from somebody's fish tank, or escaped to breed and make trouble.

I watched the native Anole population in Jacksonville go to Geckos, then the Geckos disappeared and the Anoles came back.  I can't say how that happened...
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2020, 04:24:16 pm »
Richard Noel a fellow beekeeper from Brittany, has been dealing with them. You might find this interesting.


Offline Seeb

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2020, 07:14:38 pm »
very interesting Ben, and I may be wrong, but I think the one in the news is different than the one Richard is talking about [either that or the one I've seen is a queen]  See what you think - check the link I posted earlier

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/05/01/us/00ASIAN-HORNETS-deadhornet/merlin_171970938_95ae4252-c96f-4d0e-8118-6d813f3f20e0-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

Offline Xerox

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2020, 08:16:39 pm »
Of course it happens in my state. Very close to me in fact  :cry:
3 hives died in 1 year. I need to start with two hives.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2020, 08:20:44 pm »
I?m not sure but I am thinking they wait on the outside for bees to enter and exit? I watched a National Geographic film or something similar far before I began beekeeping and it seems from a vague memory, this is what I watched. Is this the same creature as the Japanese hornet?

There is a fish running lose in Florida called the snakehead, I do not know much about it except it also came from the east. I doubt it hitched on a cargo ship, and no pun intended. There are many invasive species here now. All with their own story of how they got here.
That?s one of the problems with dealing with governments which have very different ideologies than our own. Suspicion can be easily surmised and sometimes rightly so.

I think Ron Paul hit it right, trade is good. But at the same time under solid guidelines and rules which must be closely followed.

Phil, I think the Japanese hornet is the critter in the bees found in Washington state.  This hornet destroys an Italian hive in a matter of hours.  Nat. Geo did a documentary on the Japanese hornets.  Only takes about 60 hornets to kill a hive of 30,000 Italian honey bees.  The hornets go for the honeybee brood.

What was interesting in the Nat geo. Video is the local bees, cerena has evolved to heat kill the Japanese hornet scouts, avoiding an attack by the main hornet hive.

I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Online The15thMember

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2020, 08:22:14 pm »

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/murder-hornets-have-now-entered-the-u-s-and-they-could-decimate-the-honeybee-population/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=87805719&fbclid=IwAR1SxIJQ9W1sTZuwnMyXT6Qn_tY8tZRQ2yfVzD3_yjFg_fdLXwsq9XKKmA8
I have never heard anyone call Asian giant hornets "murder hornets".  Sure, let's make people MORE afraid of "bees".  :angry:  Even this article states they are unlikely to target humans. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online The15thMember

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2020, 08:57:18 pm »
I?m not sure but I am thinking they wait on the outside for bees to enter and exit? I watched a National Geographic film or something similar far before I began beekeeping and it seems from a vague memory, this is what I watched. Is this the same creature as the Japanese hornet?

Phil, I think the Japanese hornet is the critter in the bees found in Washington state.  This hornet destroys an Italian hive in a matter of hours.  Nat. Geo did a documentary on the Japanese hornets.  Only takes about 60 hornets to kill a hive of 30,000 Italian honey bees.  The hornets go for the honeybee brood.

What was interesting in the Nat geo. Video is the local bees, cerena has evolved to heat kill the Japanese hornet scouts, avoiding an attack by the main hornet hive.


Richard Noel a fellow beekeeper from Brittany, has been dealing with them. You might find this interesting.
very interesting Ben, and I may be wrong, but I think the one in the news is different than the one Richard is talking about [either that or the one I've seen is a queen]  See what you think - check the link I posted earlier

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/05/01/us/00ASIAN-HORNETS-deadhornet/merlin_171970938_95ae4252-c96f-4d0e-8118-6d813f3f20e0-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

I think we are getting a little confused here by the very similar common names; lets get some help from taxonomy. 

The hornets that have just invaded the northwestern US are Vespa mandarinia, the Asian Giant Hornet.  The species also now includes the Japanese Giant Hornet, which used to be considered a distinct subspecies, Vespa mandarinia japonica, but it has been reclassified and is now not considered to be different from the Asian Giant Hornet. 
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The hornets shown in Richard's video that Ben Framed posted are Asian Hornets (not Asian Giant Hornets), Vespa velutina.  These are invasive to Europe, but have not been seen in the US. 
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Both species can decimate Apis mellifera hives because our honey bees do not have the mechanisms to defend against them that Apis cerana does. 
   
   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2020, 09:11:56 pm »
Thanks everyone for the clarification and pictures. I hope they get these rounded up! Be on the lookout Xerox!

Offline CapnChkn

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2020, 04:35:11 am »
Yep!  Richard Noel mentions the native hornet, Vespa Crabro, several times.  He also mentions the native species is slightly larger.  We've had the European Hornet in the US for over 100 years.  They like to nest in cavities the same as Honeybees, and I occasionally find a queen has started a nest in one of my swarm traps.

Member, LOL!  Yep, the nickname in Japan for the Giant hornet is "Murder Hornet."  It's not that they are more poisonous, but that the huge critters have so much more to inject.  They kill about 50 people a year in Japan.

I suppose this giant could be kept in check, as far as honeybee hives go, by building a one way entrance.  One the bees could go in and out of, but the scout hornets would be channeled into a holding area.  Since their habit is to find honeybee colonies, then go home and bring the troops, it would be the best strategy to capture the scouts before they can bring the rest of the plunderers.
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2020, 08:58:05 pm »
I understand that apis cerana is able to critically raise the temp when they ball a hornet, as opposed to our western bees.
Is the cerana so much of a lesser honey producer and smaller hive maker that it is worse than our bee?

Online AR Beekeeper

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2020, 09:50:24 pm »
Raising the temperature by balling is how European Honey Bees kill Bumble Bees that enter the hive, and how worker bees often kill queens that enter the wrong hive when returning from mating flights or excess queens in swarms.  Unless the temperature required to kill the Asian Giant Hornet is much greater than that required to kill Bumble Bees our bees should be able to do the job.

My understanding is the trait lacking in our bees is the trait to detect and instantly mass and capture the hornet.

Van;  The Snakehead escaped from a fish farmer's pond here in Arkansas and that is what began it's spread.  It's the same thing that happened with the Asian Carp that escaped from the State Hatchery in Lonoke.

Offline Ralphee

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2020, 03:23:26 am »
Here in the land down under they had a problem with the Cane Beetle eating the cane about 100 years ago (or so)
So they had a *brilliant* idea - lets introduce the Cane Toad - that will eat the Cane Beetle and solve everything!
Except the Cane Toad doesn't eat Cane Beetles at all.... and has no natural predator here and is poisonous if anything tries to eat it... and they like to make baby Cane Toads a lot...

We have a few introduced species here we shouldn't have (anyone for carp? they have messed up a bunch of rivers) and can attest that its a 'very bad idea indeed'
Thankfully we don't have veroa mite (yet)
And yeah, maybe don't call it a 'murder wasp' if you don't want people exterminating *everything* that looks like a bee/wasp...

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2020, 08:05:09 am »
I understand that apis cerana is able to critically raise the temp when they ball a hornet, as opposed to our western bees.
Is the cerana so much of a lesser honey producer and smaller hive maker that it is worse than our bee?
Yes. Our friends down under are constantly fighting to keep them from invading Australia.
Jim Altmiller

Offline CapnChkn

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Re: Giant Asian Hornet now invading US.
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2020, 08:06:48 am »
Bob, Yep.  It's the reason they try introducing Apis Mellifera to the Far East.  A. Mellifera is indigenous to Africa.  The theory is, there was a large forest that stretched from Asia to Africa millions of years ago.  The Apis genus flourished all along that forest.  Climates changed, creating a rift in that jungle, separating the population.

The honeybees that lived in the Western half adapted to the climate of Africa, which became steadily drier, and harsher.  The populations developed behavior that caused them to work harder, store food more quickly, and reproduce readily.

Somewhere along the line, they moved into the forests of Europe and Central Asia, became gentler because they didn't have predators like the Honey Badger, Honeyguide, and Humans, swarmed less, and found larger cavities to build in so they could survive cold winters, and store enough honey to get through them.

A. Mellifera has pretty much replaced the native "stingless" honeybees that the Maya and their ancestors raised for thousands of years.  These are one of the bees that pollinate Tomatoes, by the way.  Producing about a cup of surplus honey a season.
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.