Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: 8 frame medium brood boxes  (Read 663 times)

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
8 frame medium brood boxes
« on: March 11, 2020, 01:46:04 pm »
hello fellow beeks -

i'm working on assembling frames today, and wondering why my Mann Lake 8 frame medium hives are holding 9 frames - I did not have to force any frames in?
also, i'm doing alternate frames of small cell wax, and the next without wax, for the bees to draw their own. does it matter if the empty frame or the wax filled frame goes next to the end hive walls?

thanks
seeb alias  aurelia

Online The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 872
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2020, 06:30:26 pm »
i'm working on assembling frames today, and wondering why my Mann Lake 8 frame medium hives are holding 9 frames - I did not have to force any frames in?
I had this question when I first assembled my boxes too.  You can jam 9 frames into an 8 frame box.  I'm not sure if once there is comb and bees on the frames you could still get 9 frames in or not.  I certainly couldn't, since my bees often don't draw straight. 

also, i'm doing alternate frames of small cell wax, and the next without wax, for the bees to draw their own. does it matter if the empty frame or the wax filled frame goes next to the end hive walls?

I have never used foundation, so I could be wrong, but I don't see why it would matter. 

thanks
seeb alias  aurelia
So should we call you Aurelia now?  Because I'd be totally into that.  I'm learning Latin right now, and according to my (currently meager) knowledge of Latin, that name makes you "the golden one", which sounds really awesome.  :happy:  Not that Seeb isn't great too, but it doesn't exactly have the same ring to it as "the golden one".  :cheesy:   
     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2020, 07:40:59 pm »
"So should we call you Aurelia now?  Because I'd be totally into that.  I'm learning Latin right now, and according to my (currently meager) knowledge of Latin, that name makes you "the golden one", which sounds really awesome.  Not that Seeb isn't great too, but it doesn't exactly have the same ring to it as "the golden one".   
     
Seeb is my beekeeper name, and Aurelia is my "real-life" name.  Yes, it does mean "the golden one', and "Aurelia aurita (also called the common jellyfish, moon jellyfish, moon jelly or saucer jelly) is a widely studied species of the genus Aurelia." 

Somedays I feel like the golden one, some days a jellyfish - lol

Thanks for your input Member, now I'm trying to figure out what to do about the extra space since the reason I went for the 8 frame hive was weight. Maybe I'll just space the frames accordingly [seems like I remember beeks just using 9 frames in a 10 frame hive].

Online The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 872
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2020, 08:45:51 pm »
       
Seeb is my beekeeper name, and Aurelia is my "real-life" name.  Yes, it does mean "the golden one', and "Aurelia aurita (also called the common jellyfish, moon jellyfish, moon jelly or saucer jelly) is a widely studied species of the genus Aurelia." 

Somedays I feel like the golden one, some days a jellyfish - lol

That is such a pretty name.  And I love moon jellies.  :happy:   

Thanks for your input Member, now I'm trying to figure out what to do about the extra space since the reason I went for the 8 frame hive was weight. Maybe I'll just space the frames accordingly [seems like I remember beeks just using 9 frames in a 10 frame hive].
I'd just use the 8 frames if it was me.  It's possible, even with foundation, that the bees will draw one of the combs a little weird.  Also more wiggle room is safer for queens, since the last thing you want to do is roll her when pulling a frame.  I'm going to try using 7 frames in my honey supers this year.  My bees seem to like to draw fat comb in the supers, which makes it challenging to pull frames if the box is full.       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline jvalentour

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 807
  • Gender: Male
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2020, 09:49:14 pm »
Seeb,
Keep your brood frames tight.
Should you decide to do walk aways, spread them slightly.
Should you decide to collect honey spread them evenly.

Offline cao

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1355
  • Gender: Male
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2020, 12:40:16 am »
It doesn't surprise me that you can get the extra frame in your box.  I make my own boxes and make my 8 frame boxes 1/2 inch narrower than mann lake and I still have plenty of wiggle room for my frames.  My advise just use 8 frames an keep the pressed tight together and in the middle.

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5850
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2020, 08:48:27 am »
hello fellow beeks -

i'm working on assembling frames today, and wondering why my Mann Lake 8 frame medium hives are holding 9 frames -
seeb alias  aurelia
All boxes are constructed this way so you have space to remove the first frame without rolling bees.  My advice is to not jam in the extra frame.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2020, 09:33:42 am »
Yes, with 9 frames in my box, there is still plenty of wiggle room, so looks like I need to stick with 8 frames, centered in the brood box
Thanks to all for your help, my bees will be here next week and I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas.

Should you decide to do walk aways, spread them slightly.

Jvalentour - I'm not familiar with the term "walk aways" ???

Member - I like moon jellies too

Offline paus

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 525
  • Gender: Male
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2020, 01:20:59 pm »
I mostly run 10 frame but on 10 or 8 I move all frames to one side so there is room to remove the outside frame just as Ace explained.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17500
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2020, 02:49:46 pm »
I would shave the end bars so they are 32mm or 1 1/4" wide and put 9 in.  If not, I would probably still put 9 in as the extra space is a bit much, but I prefer to shave them a little as you need a little wiggle room and narrow frames will get you smaller cells and less drone and the bees can cover and raise more brood with less bees...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5850
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2020, 09:21:07 am »
I mostly run 10 frame but on 10 or 8 I move all frames to one side so there is room to remove the outside frame just as Ace explained.
I tend to center the frames.  If I were going to push them all to one side I would want a follower board in the large space.  The problem with that is it might get glued in or harbor SHB.  A lot depends on the time span between manipulations.  For me I am not in favor of brood frame interventions so the time span could be quite long.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2020, 10:16:30 am »
Ok, after reading Michael's link, and going back and rereading Member's "Hive Postmortem" posting with MickeyNC comments, I better understand the issues with extra space in the brood boxes.
If I'm understanding, it looks like I can still use 8 frames spaced loosely in the honey supers.

What does not make sense to me is calling a box eight frame when it easily holds 9 frames - I've never bought or seen a 10 frame hive that would hold 11 frames. Just venting

Online The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 872
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2020, 11:21:31 am »
What does not make sense to me is calling a box eight frame when it easily holds 9 frames - I've never bought or seen a 10 frame hive that would hold 11 frames. Just venting
I'm kind of confused as to why you are able to "easily" fit 9 frames in a 8 frame box.  I'm pretty sure that some of my 8 frame boxes are from Mann Lake.  (I bought them at a local supplier.  They used to be a Brushy Mountain dealer, but since Brushy went under they've been carrying mostly Mann Lake.)  I could force 9 frames into a box, but I probably couldn't get them back out again, and that's without bees, comb, or propolis.  If you are fitting 9 frames into a box with wiggle room, something could be off, either with the box or the frames.         
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline paus

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 525
  • Gender: Male
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2020, 11:28:31 am »
I run some frames through the table saw to make them thin enough to use 11 in a 10 frame box and I make an X on top of these frames.  All bee in my area seem to make an abundance of propolis so I gave up on 11 frame for now 

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2020, 08:48:05 am »
If you are fitting 9 frames into a box with wiggle room, something could be off, either with the box or the frames.        

Yes, I agree - and did not intend to focus on Mann Lake anymore than my own skills in assembly.  Just to be clear, ML is, and will continue to be my go-to supplier.

Online The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 872
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2020, 06:35:58 pm »
I'm not familiar with the term "walk aways" ???
Oh, by the way, a walk away split is when you split the hive without finding the queen.  You just put half the bees and brood in another hive and the hive that ended up with no queen will make one and the hive with the queen will continue as before, but hopefully won't swarm because they have plenty of space now.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2020, 09:05:24 am »
Thanks Member, I appreciate you.

Offline snispel

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2020, 06:03:56 am »
I figured I needed to trim some frames to fit nine into this hive. The bees are small and do this on several of the frames. I figured the space was too big for their comfort. (This is not the actual hive. This is just an example of what they are doing) What do you all think?

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 08:28:11 am »
Snispel - With 9 frames in my 8 frame hive, I still got comb built like your picture. Right or wrong, I pulled the overlap off and rubber banded it onto an empty frame.  So my experience was it didn't make a difference. 

Online Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3943
  • North Mississippi
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2020, 02:52:59 pm »
I am surprised that Mann Lake boxes are not up to par as far as width. Seeb is it mann lake frames that you are using as well?  By the way, Aurelia is a beautiful name!! So is Reagan ......

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2020, 03:30:53 pm »
 is it mann lake frames that you are using as well

yes, everything is Mann Lake. Thanks Phillip it's a family name.  I'm curious though about the comb built like it is in the picture snispel posted.

Online Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3943
  • North Mississippi
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2020, 10:39:40 pm »
>I'm curious though about the comb built like it is in the picture snispel posted.

There was enough room for that run of comb, so the bees made use of it. They may do the same in your boxes if one side or the other is left gaped. In my opinion, you would be better off evenly distributing your 8 frames. The bees will make thicker comb and store more honey in each frame. If it is brood you desire, you might need to follow Michael Bushes or Pauses' instructions.
If you jam the 8 frames Together they may build bur comb on each inside of your box as well. Sorry to have to tell you this. I realize you bought to use as an 8 Framed situation. I am surprised that a company as reputable as Mann lake selling this as such.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 11:51:18 am by Ben Framed »

Offline Bob Wilson

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 453
  • Gender: Male
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2020, 08:44:14 am »
For communication's sake, I remind everyone that you can change your name on the profile page/modify profile/account settings. I started with the cryptic name bobll, for Bob long langstroth. But people called me Bob, Bobii, or ll. Then I saw Michael Bush using his own name. Simply change your profile name to what you want to be called. I get confused with all these beemaster names, and then signing our posts with other names.  :wink:

Online Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3943
  • North Mississippi
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2020, 10:35:23 am »
For communication's sake, I remind everyone that you can change your name on the profile page/modify profile/account settings. I started with the cryptic name bobll, for Bob long langstroth. But people called me Bob, Bobii, or ll. Then I saw Michael Bush using his own name. Simply change your profile name to what you want to be called. I get confused with all these beemaster names, and then signing our posts with other names.  :wink:

I have noticed more folks start off with a Beemaster name. Eventually they may feel more comfortable with the forum, and With new acquaintances found here. This leading to using their real name at the bottom just to let their new friends know who they are. I like it when a newer member shows the comfortable confidence of transition and warmth shown, by signing their own personal name from time to time, or always as Jim does. To me it is demonstrating the newer member feels at home at Beemaster, a warm sense of belonging. Personally I like it when this honor is bestowed by a newer member to the rest of us.

Ben Framed     :wink:
Phillip

Offline Bob Wilson

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 453
  • Gender: Male
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2020, 12:05:19 pm »
I agree, Phillip. Joining a group of strangers and online security measures often lead to using secure aliases. It is good when people can feel comfortable enough to share a name.
It just helps with communication if people stick with a single posted name. When I first started, and sometimes even now, i lose track of who is responding to which comment, because there are multiple names being used. I am trying to grasp beekeeping concepts, and then I have to stop and hunt back through the thread to figure out who a person is, what question someone is answering. I found it a bit frustrating at first.

Online Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3943
  • North Mississippi
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2020, 12:47:53 pm »
It is not security I am referring to Bob, it is warmth. May I suggest, to avoid your confusion, that you simply look at the (beemaster) name where each response is posted on top and ignore the personal signature at the bottom. I do not see how you can become confused by this method. Some here, post a picture to go along with that Beemastee name. This should but all but eliminate your confusion. I am simply pointing out there may be other points of view than your own, over signature. I do not think anyone here is trying to confuse you or distract from your learning by signing their personal name from time to time. Like you, we are trying to grasp beekeeping concepts, not debate signature.  lol.   I hope that helps.

Phillip Hall
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 01:00:33 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline Bob Wilson

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 453
  • Gender: Male
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2020, 11:24:21 pm »
Thanks for your suggestions Phillip. Certainly I am glad to be a part of this great forum. I am learning many valuable beekeeping lessons, from many wonderful beeks.

Online Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3943
  • North Mississippi
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2020, 11:41:42 pm »
Thanks for your suggestions Phillip. Certainly I am glad to be a part of this great forum. I am learning many valuable beekeeping lessons, from many wonderful beeks.

You are welcome Bob. I am glad you are here. You come up with some good ideas and suggestions along with some good questions and answers, I might add. As do many others here. We are blessed!

Offline snispel

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2020, 01:29:23 am »
Thanks for the input, Seeb. :)

Offline Seeb

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Female
Re: 8 frame medium brood boxes
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2020, 07:11:33 pm »
you are most welcome