Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Making Splits Your Thoughts?  (Read 448 times)

Offline Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4253
  • North Mississippi
Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« on: February 07, 2020, 10:55:13 am »
Your opinion? Upon making splits, I have been given two different sets of ideas on making splits with the adding of queen cells. On one hand some folks say add two queen cells per split. On the other hand some folks say only add one queen cell per split. Hum that is interesting to me.  First type reasoning is in the case one queen cell does not survive to hatch, you will have a second chance for success. Sounds reasonable? On the other hand the one queen cell per split says, to add two queen cells per split is a waste of a good split and QC, IF the QUeen Cells were properly harvested, making sure they were not damaged and temperatures were kept up to par, properly placed into the split etc. Some also say in the case both QCs emerge at or around the same time , (referring to first method of two QC) BEFORE the first can kill the second inside her yet to emerge cell, and both make it to hatch, (emerge) the virgin queens WILL fight it out leaving one survivor, sometimes NO survivor, as they both can perish as the results of the deadly fight. HUM  You tell me?  I do not think either way is wrong? What are your thoughts and maybe your experiences?
Phillip
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 12:38:58 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 969
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2020, 01:55:29 pm »
I'm so glad you asked this, I was having the same questions going into split season.  I also have one more question.  If you put 2 queen cells in a split, is there a risk of a swarm?   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline jtcmedic

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 428
  • Gender: Male
    • Sweetest sting honey
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2020, 05:15:41 pm »
On mine like we were discussing I use OTS notching and when I make My splits I don?t take them off the frame. I pick the best looking cells and if multiple on a frame will cull all but 2 best. May not have said the ots bit before.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4253
  • North Mississippi
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2020, 05:43:18 pm »
Understanding your way of seeing things and this practice with OTS almost ensures or guarantees great success of one of those two cells surviving. I would like to ask you another question regarding this OTS frame. Do you try and save the queen cells that you remove? I realize there are many different ways to raise queens and make splits etc. Your way sounds like a good firm and solid way of assuring success. Thank you for your reply. I am trying to expand my horizons and will add your way to my list of success.  I would really enjoy hearing others adding or expressing their way of accomplishing queen cell splits also. This is not an You are right, or she is right, situation, I believe anytime we are successful as you are, we have to be right in our own way of doing things. Any other ideas or experiences from others which are also successful will also be appreciated.
Phillip
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 12:39:21 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Nock

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 504
  • Gender: Male
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2020, 06:35:26 pm »
Good question. I?ve never done it but I would think one. Be interesting to see others chime in.

Offline minz

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 305
  • Gender: Male
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2020, 07:38:08 pm »
You are not increasing your chance of getting a mated queen by putting two cells in the same mating hive. They will probably try to kill each other and you will end up with one weaker queen. Do not make your split super strong and they will not swarm.
So when I have cells I put them in a queen castle with one frame of mixed brood and a frame of partial honey (Gives my hive the ability to make more drawn comb or just have open space). After I check and find eggs then I give them more frames and bump them up to a nuc. You could do the same thing with a nuc and do one cell per and just do a couple of frames.
Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline jtcmedic

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 428
  • Gender: Male
    • Sweetest sting honey
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2020, 09:54:03 pm »
I like the way you do that jtcmedic. Understanding your way of seeing things and this practice with OTS almost ensures or guarantees great success of one of those two cells surviving. I would like to ask you another question regarding this OTS frame. Do you try and save the queen cells that you remove? I realize there are many different ways to raise queens and make splits etc. Your way sounds like a good firm and solid way of assuring success. Thank you for your reply. I am trying to expand my horizons and will add your way to my list of success.  I would really enjoy hearing others adding or expressing their way of accomplishing queen cell splits also. This is not an You are right, or she is right, situation, I believe anytime we are successful as you are, we have to be right in our own way of doing things. Any other ideas or experiences from others which are also successful will also be appreciated.
Phillip
the queen I will pull this spring will be put in to a nuc with 2 frames of brood and a shake of bees, then let them build out a 5 frame in 8 weeks and then into a 10. Then after summer solstice I will requeen her giving them a brood brake and will then split again . Then these queens will be my over winter queens for next year to start over

Offline Oldbeavo

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 629
  • Gender: Male
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2020, 06:07:31 am »
Can you buy queen cells from the queen breeders?
We get QC's that are due to hatch the next day. Take 2 frames of brood, 1 frame honey, 1 empty frame (sticky) and add a QC.
Nucs are moved to a new location and the QC added. If on the brood frames there are some new eggs, if they do not accept the new virgin, then they will often form a QC and so all is not lost.
Nucs are made to control hive population and control some swarming. We make nucs before the bees start making swarm cells.

Offline CoolBees

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • Gender: Male
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2020, 09:42:53 am »
Can you buy queen cells from the queen breeders?
We get QC's that are due to hatch the next day. ...

I was under the impression that the QC had to be kept warm, and not bounced around - making transportation difficult. ... yes?
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Oldbeavo

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 629
  • Gender: Male
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2020, 04:39:18 pm »
We pick them up from the breeder and they go in the day we pick them up.
We carry them in a small esky in wood shavings to keep them vertical. If we pick them up with 2 days to hatch we take a queenless nuc of bees to put them in to transport.
You have to be delicate with them but most are OK with the transport.
They cost A$5 each, so it is a good way to add to the genetic pool of your apiary.

Offline van from Arkansas

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1573
  • Gender: Male
  • Van from Arkansas.
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2020, 05:08:14 pm »
Agree with Cool and Beavo.  I have always treated qc like delicate China.  I always keep vertical and never shake bees off a frame with qc.  I gently brush the bees off of a frame with qc.  After the qc is capped is the most delicate phase.  As the pupae matures and approaching hatch date, the qc are not so fragile.  As Beavo noted, TWO days prehatch the qc is not as delicate as when first capped.  metamorphosis begins and the legs being developed so the slightest jiggle, laying a qc on it?s side, can damage at this early stage of development.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4253
  • North Mississippi
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2020, 05:54:41 pm »
We pick them up from the breeder and they go in the day we pick them up.
We carry them in a small esky in wood shavings to keep them vertical. If we pick them up with 2 days to hatch we take a queenless nuc of bees to put them in to transport.
You have to be delicate with them but most are OK with the transport.
They cost A$5 each, so it is a good way to add to the genetic pool of your apiary.

Oldbeavo Your access is a win situation. I do not know if breeders here, sell QCs that inexpensively. I would be interested in some idea the price of what breeders here in America sell their QCs for.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline CoolBees

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • Gender: Male
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2020, 06:34:54 pm »
Outstanding information gentlemen. Thank you. That answers my questions. It sounds like older (1 or 2 days prehatch) qc's are much more durable. The idea of transporting with queenless bees for wrmth makes the most sense.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Oldbeavo

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 629
  • Gender: Male
Re: Making Splits Your Thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2020, 06:11:00 am »
We have 2 local queen breeders, one about 65 mile away the other about 75 mile.
You have to be lucky with weather as things are timed tight.
If you make the nucs too soon before you get your cells you run the risk of the nuc starting to form a QC that you may miss. They accept the new queen but may not tear down the QC. When it hatches they may treat it as a supersedure and you can lose you new genetics.