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Author Topic: Making splits - pulling queens  (Read 440 times)

Offline CoolBees

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Making splits - pulling queens
« on: February 06, 2020, 09:14:07 pm »
I pulled the queens from my 4 strongest hives today. The flow is in full swing here now, flowering trees are popping out all over, daytime temps are around 70 degrees. I split out 3 frames of nurse bees with each queen, but I left all the brood in the original hives. The goal is to get QC'S developing in the strong hives.

When I have QC'S, my goal is to pull the frames with QC'S into splits, and reintroduce the queens back into the large hives.

I'm hoping to keep production going and to keep brood increases at the same time. Not sure how it will work out, but we will see in 2 months.   :cool:

I know many of you are in winter still. I'm wishing each of you and your bees - the best in the coming season. Comments welcome.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2020, 09:31:43 pm »
I should also mention that every hive has drones now, and are raising more drones.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2020, 09:37:02 pm »
Will be doing this also, sounds like Ots. Are you gonna cull only 2 cells per split? I did this in fall flow pulled my queen, knocked down to 2 cells and left them for 30 days and they brought in so much nectar, was amazing.
Good luck

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2020, 09:45:09 pm »
Will be doing this also, sounds like Ots. Are you gonna cull only 2 cells per split? I did this in fall flow pulled my queen, knocked down to 2 cells and left them for 30 days and they brought in so much nectar, was amazing.
Good luck

No, I won't be culling QCells. I'll pull frames with QC'S on them over to Nucs to raise as many queens as I can.

I've read that the best way to maximize honey production during a flow, is to pull the queen. Sounds like you found the same thing.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2020, 09:47:21 pm »
Alan I hope you have plenty of wood-ware available because you are going to have enough queen cells to make enough new nucs splits running out of the ears. lol   (how many splits do you hope to make?)  Wishing you continued success.
Phillip

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2020, 10:20:28 pm »
Will be doing this also, sounds like Ots. Are you gonna cull only 2 cells per split? I did this in fall flow pulled my queen, knocked down to 2 cells and left them for 30 days and they brought in so much nectar, was amazing.
Good luck

No, I won't be culling QCells. I'll pull frames with QC'S on them over to Nucs to raise as many queens as I can.

I've read that the best way to maximize honey production during a flow, is to pull the queen. Sounds like you found the same thing.
when I make my splits I only keep 2cells per split. The v queens don?t have to fight off 4 other v queen before the mate flight   

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2020, 10:24:15 pm »
Will be doing this also, sounds like Ots. Are you gonna cull only 2 cells per split? I did this in fall flow pulled my queen, knocked down to 2 cells and left them for 30 days and they brought in so much nectar, was amazing.
Good luck

No, I won't be culling QCells. I'll pull frames with QC'S on them over to Nucs to raise as many queens as I can.

I've read that the best way to maximize honey production during a flow, is to pull the queen. Sounds like you found the same thing.
when I make my splits I only keep 2cells per split. The v queens don?t have to fight off 4 other v queen before the mate flight

jtcmedic have you tried this while using only one QC instead of two? If yes what was the results?
 I did similar as a Alan is doing last season except I harvested one cell per split which worked pretty good. Percentage wise.
Phillip



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« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 09:56:00 am by Ben Framed »

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2020, 12:16:53 am »
Alan I hope you have plenty of wood-ware available because you are going to have enough queen cells to make enough new nucs splits running out of the ears. lol   (how many splits do you hope to make?)  Wishing you continued success.
Phillip

I wish. Last year I tried to get to 20 hives. I got to 9. I'd be happy if I got 4 new hives out of this round - after mating flights, etc.

(I had numerous failures is splits last year. Learned a lot, but mostly thru failure)
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2020, 07:01:47 am »
Will be doing this also, sounds like Ots. Are you gonna cull only 2 cells per split? I did this in fall flow pulled my queen, knocked down to 2 cells and left them for 30 days and they brought in so much nectar, was amazing.
Good luck

No, I won't be culling QCells. I'll pull frames with QC'S on them over to Nucs to raise as many queens as I can.

I've read that the best way to maximize honey production during a flow, is to pull the queen. Sounds like you found the same thing.
when I make my splits I only keep 2cells per split. The v queens don?t have to fight off 4 other v queen before the mate flight

jtcmedic have you tried this while using only one QC instead of two? If yes what was the results? Percentage wise
per success and to results ratio ?
Last fall I did 2 on all of 7 splits, got 90 percent return. In spring I  Purchased 5 mated queens and 2 made it 3 were superseaded . So feel the fall splits were better off and cost me less. The fall queen that didn?t make it never got back from mating flight

Phillip

Offline minz

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2020, 07:56:25 pm »
You need lots of nurse bees to make good queens, if you are planning to reintroduce the queen in the end you should leave as many bees behind with the fewest amount of emerging bees to feed as possible for the first 10 days. After that the cell is done and it is the work of the local drones.
Look at Michael Palmers videos, he sepeates his hives with an excluder and  then just rotates his queen right hive to the rear. He also moves capped brood into the hive beforehand to get more nurse bees. Do the same thing except give them a frame of eggs rather than a graft. I think it is what you are trying to do without reinventing the wheel.
Maybe try to graft? I suck at it. I have grafting tools that I got a 10 pack on ebay and cells that are pennies each. I must be into it $10. So I only get 10 good cells per try, it is more than I can mate out (two queen castles).
I have 3 places that I have tried to mate queens and found I get almost none out of Boring, about three quarters of the time here in Damascus and about ninety percent out in Eagle creek. If you have bad luck move them around. That is another advantage of nucs or queen castles for mating-After you shake a cup or two of bees into it they can not fly home when you take the tape off of the hole.
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Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2020, 08:19:56 pm »
For small guy , cloake board or altmillers

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2020, 08:21:47 pm »
If planning on making q from same. Hives

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2020, 08:30:17 pm »
Minz - I think Grafting is "above my pay grade" :cheesy: Besides, I'm lazy.  :grin:

I'm just trying to get a few frames with QC'S. When that's done, I'll switch those frames over to Nucs with some stores and bees. Hopefully the queen survives mating - and all is good.

Searching for the queen (to remove her) is my new favorite game. (I'm sure I'll get bored with it some day) :cool:
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2020, 08:49:39 pm »
Some hives can have 2 Qs

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2020, 08:50:46 pm »
So make sure u pull rite one.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2020, 09:12:53 pm »
CoolBees: your killing me with envy: flowering trees poping up everywhere!!!!  Good for you, my turn in about 6-8 more weeks.  I experience what I call Spring Bee Fever every late winter as the beeks like yourself texted about all the fun you are having with the bees, while I look at snow.  I wanna play so bad!!!  There is no cure, no treatment  for for Spring Bee Fever, I just have to suffer through it, like every year, until April and WALLA, I am completely cured.

As most know I graft for queens  n so I want go into that.  Minz stated a most important issue with queen rearing, by any means [graft or natural] and that is YOU NEED A LOT OF NURSE BEES.  A very important fact, lots of nurse bees.  I consider capped brood almost the same as nurse bees. 

So, if you plan on letting the bees raise queens, CONSIDER removing one frame to provide more space between remaining frames.  I can?t tell ya how many queen cells I have destroyed pulling frames inwhich a queen cell was attached to two frames and ripped apart as I lifted only one frame of the joined queen cells.  Oops!!  Removing a frame creates more space between frames thus less likely queen cells are attached to two adjacent frames.

I also use queen castles as previously mentioned.  My castles are made from a ten frame deep as follows:  four sealed compartments, 1 small opening 3/4 inch each compartment  and 2 frames each compartment, 1 food 1 capped brood.

I read on this thread, some beeks use two queen cells per new hive.  Use what works for you, I only use one, but nothing wrong with insurance.

One last note, very important.  When I makes splits, the original hive is moved, maybe only 50 feet.  This is important to move the bees from the original position.  If you leave a split in the original position, these bees will rob the newly created moved split, unless you are moving 2 miles.  Robbing is such a pain: prevention is best, so move the original position split.  Otherwise, some of your split bees will fly back to the mother hive and robbing is almost guaranteed.

Best of luck with your bees. 

I also artificially inseminate queens, another story, off subject.

Please post pics of flowers and bees.  Makes me feel so good, very happy,  to see the pic of bees and helps lessen the symptoms of my Spring Bee Fever.

Van
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 10:09:14 pm by van from Arkansas »
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2020, 09:58:52 pm »
Some hives can have 2 Qs

So make sure u pull rite one.

That would be cool. Guess I'll find out next weekend when I go back in each hive.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2020, 10:07:43 pm »
Van - I feel for you. Your turn is coming veeeery soon. Keep in mind, in june, july, august, & september, when you guys are having fun with your bees - I've got nothing. No flow - just survival from Jun till Dec here.

Thanks for the advice. I'm cheering for you, & I greatly admire what you do with queens.

I'll try to get some pics in a few days, when I get back - gotta travel right now.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2020, 10:18:58 pm »
In the manner that Alan has described the concern of nurse bees should not be so much a worry or concern. A person such as Michael Palmer or Richard Noel who raise queens via Grafting and or AI or II, if you will, need first to have a cell builder prepared with a vast number of abundant nurse bees to be able to handle the load, of a sudden introduction of a vast number of grafted larva. Alans situation is different as he is not grafting, he has no need for a cell builder because his method is simply remove his four queens form his four strongest hives. The bees know what they are doing and will make as many queen cells as they deem of their choosing and know they can handle. They will build these QCs and nurture them until they are capped with the nurse bees and provisions that are already in the hive, and they are already equipped with. And let me add provisions steady being brought in by worker bees. I feel confident in saying  that if they make a mistake and build to many queen cells, which is possible but doubtful, meaning more than the hives can provide for then they will handle that situation as it arrives and is required. Once these QCs are capped Alan is in business because the available nurse bees will have done their jobs and the QCs should be ready to harvest at the proper age of the capped QCs.
Blessings,
Phillip



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« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 12:20:14 am by Ben Framed »

Offline jimineycricket

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Re: Making splits - pulling queens
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2020, 10:45:00 am »
jimmy