Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: 1917  (Read 326 times)

Offline Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3248
  • North Mississippi
Re: 1917
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2020, 08:01:19 pm »
No worries. Both of you are fine by me.  :grin:

All I can say was my studies of Bible Prophecy lead me to a different answer. It's all good.  :grin:

You two are a pair of classy folks!!  I am about to have dinner, more later. As my buddy van says
Blessings

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 995
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1917
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2020, 10:07:39 pm »
... And if something happens, it won't matter because 1/2 the population will die anyway when they find out they can't access Facebook and Twitter  :cheesy:
The other 1/2 will die on old forest tracks and logging roads because the GPS has failed and they can't read a map.

I gotta say - that was Hysterically Funny!
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3248
  • North Mississippi
Re: 1917
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2020, 10:23:02 pm »
"Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Kathy. Let me agree that many say that the US has no place in biblical prophecy. This may or may not be accurate. Let us take a closer look at things that we do know. The bible does speak of the (Great Babylon) in Revelations biblical (prophecy).
Let put that to the side for a moment and concentrate of the old babylon of biblical (history). Let's look at the FIRST babylon in biblical history. We know from the Holy recordings that the babylon of that day were of one language, I would suppose one race? I do not know (there is much I do not know) lol .  These folks decided to build a tower up unto heaven to God. Now we know that could not be done but the educated people of that day did not know this. So at it they went. God knew they these silly folks could not reach him. What did he do? He caused a confusion to come upon them that they could no longer speak the same language, many different languages were come formed by this by divine intervention. The building party was broken up so to speak because of this lack of communication, and the folks that each spoke languages they could understand formed their own groups and went their separate ways.  Maybe all over the world? Basically forming the races and nations we have now? (again something I do not know).  If you are a believer Kathy or even if you are not, does this sound about right so far according to biblical history? "

Now let me say  I am but a lowly servant. Not worthy to latch the shoes of Our Lord and Saviors feet. I am not a profit, not a preacher, nor a teacher, deacon, or CHURCH singer.  I am simply a person who was lost in my sins, that has been saved by the Grace of God. My friend Cider here from England once ask me about my church standing so to speak, I will tell you as I told him. If you were to find me in church you would need to look on the back row.  So, for what I am about to say is not trying to claim prophecy, I am only stating some thoughts from the above post that I posted earlier. I was referring to the (historical) babylon of the bible.
We have already tried to understand that the different tongues were scattered abroad. Does America fit into biblical prophecy? As I said earlier I do not know. Here's what I do know. A few years ago, I read an article in the Jerusalem Post, which has stood in my mind, saying the leaders of Al Qaeda was proclaiming that their problem was the CROSS, I took that to mean Christianity. But they took it a step further, they said America was the CARRIER of the CROSS. I took that as a complement as America is was still seen as a Christian Nation to those people. The article went on to say that America was standing in the way of them destroying Israel, and therefore America MUST be destroyed. At that time it seemed the whole world was not saying good things about Israel and America was the main intervening party standing in the way and keeping those Nations form destroying Israel. We were the guards of Israel according to AL Qaeda. They said America MUST be destroyed.  {By the way, (My friend van has studied the book of those nations and is the foremost expert on those nations that I know)}.

Now let me state some facts. France graciously gave us the statue of Liberty. The poem by Emma Lazarus referring to lady liberty says "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door."  Yes lady liberty stands high and steady with her (torch) or candlestick if you will, held high in her hand. Looking out over the ocean to the distant shores of whole world. Inviting these one dispersed nations. When these folks come here they were expected and proud to learn English and proud to become Americans and speaking one tongue. And America was often referred to as the melting pot. Meaning what? I am thinking it means we are melting the folks back together, mixing folks back together, that God in his wisdom had separated? Am I saying America is bad for this no, God forbid, just stating facts. Are you with me so far or do you see something out of place or incorrect or era?

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 995
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1917
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2020, 01:23:43 am »
"Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Kathy. Let me agree that many say that the US has no place in biblical prophecy. This may or may not be accurate. Let us take a closer look at things that we do know. The bible does speak of the (Great Babylon) in Revelations biblical (prophecy).
Let put that to the side for a moment and concentrate of the old babylon of biblical (history). Let's look at the FIRST babylon in biblical history. We know from the Holy recordings that the babylon of that day were of one language, I would suppose one race? I do not know (there is much I do not know) lol .  These folks decided to build a tower up unto heaven to God. ...

Love your sincerity Phillip. Just fyi - I think you're confusing "Babylon" and "The Tower of Babel" - 2 different times in history, both very relevant and important.

With that said - I can rarely be found in church. Nothing wrong with church at all. ... I was raised in a strong Christian hone - and I thank God (and my parents) for it. I started teaching Revelation seminars on America in Biblical prophecy when I was (I think) 9 years old (maybe 8). I taught these seminars thru age 13 or so. I've studied the Bible quite deeply (memorizing the entire New Testament, and some of the Old Testament). .... however, based on my studies, I have created some rules to live by for myself:

1 - the moment a person (myself included) starts arguing about religion - they have entirely lost sight of the intended point of Christianity.

2 - there is a difference between Religion and Christianity. In extreme cases, the difference is so great that the 2 are incompatible. I wish this wasn't so.

3 - I don't have to go to church to [try to] be a Christian.

4 - There will be people in heaven from all walks of life, all periods of history, all nations, all religions, and all ethnicities.  I'd like to be one of them. God will decide.

5 - few people have actually read the Bible. Fewer still have Studied the Bible with a pure heart and prayer, searching with heart-felt sincerity for The Truth. (What the Bible has to say is amazing! ... for those that have studied it).

... and so on. .... so I don't particularly go to church. God understands each of us individually. Church or no Church - we will each be judged individually by our hearts and our actions.

May God come soon.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3248
  • North Mississippi
Re: 1917
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2020, 02:41:02 am »
"Love your sincerity Phillip. Just fyi - I think you're confusing "Babylon" and "The Tower of Babel" - 2 different times in history, both very relevant and important."

Thanks Alan as I am being sincere. I am not a bible scholar though I have and do sincerely study the bible. And as I hinted I have much to learn even yet. I feel sure that you know much more about the bible than I. Most likely others here also. Maybe Kathy and Ace know more about it than I also.  I am not counting anyone out on this. I am glad that you spoke up about babylon and the tower of babel. This the very reason that I keep stopping and asking am I on track so far, because I would not ever want to say something from the bible that was wrong or misleading. Let me say, I sincerely appreciate your sincerity and pure heart also. I am not trying to argue religion, nor do I want to, I do not like it when people do. I will state my beliefs and go on.
 
I am simply working my way back to the point of Kathy and Ace. And how at least one more world war may be possible. Maybe not like 1917 and WWI or even WWII but still a world war.  Speaking on the basics of technology and a possible loss of it.
I think the babylon of the old testament has already fallen many years ago? I am headed to the Great Babylon of Revelations. I have heard some preachers say the old babylon is believed to be in the area of now Iran or Iraq?

Now that you have me straight on the City of babylon and the tower of Babel do you think it would be proper to go on further with my thoughts from where I left off on how America may very well be in bible prophecy? Beside the difference of
The Tower of Babel and babylon of old, do you see any more errors so far? Your opinion is valued by me. If you approve I would heavily depend of your bible knowledge and anyone elses for that matter, to make sure I do not mislead. I say these things to you with humility and sincerity as we who are sincere should do?
I have it as far as Babylon and the tower of babel different but both are a part of history at least biblically?

Now to your points
1 - the moment a person (myself included) starts arguing about religion - they have entirely lost sight of the intended point of Christianity.
2 - there is a difference between Religion and Christianity. In extreme cases, the difference is so great that the 2 are incompatible. I wish this wasn't so.
3 - I don't have to go to church to [try to] be a Christian.
4 - There will be people in heaven from all walks of life, all periods of history, all nations, all religions, and all ethnicities.  I'd like to be one of them. God will decide.
5 - few people have actually read the Bible. Fewer still have Studied the Bible with a pure heart and prayer, searching with heart-felt sincerity for The Truth. (What the Bible has to say is amazing! ... for those that have studied it).
... and so on. .... so I don't particularly go to church. God understands each of us individually. Church or no Church - we will each be judged individually by our hearts and our actions.
May God come soon."

1  Yes, I agree totally. Paul and Peter demonstrated that.
2  Most definitely. Again I agree that this is true.
3  Yes again I agree. Jesus said we must be born again to be a Christian. There were many converted, (even then) out in
    open pastures.
4  Yes again I agree. Jesus said to go into all the nations of the world preaching the gospel . We who hear the word and
    believe, being born again are in that number as you describe.  3 Jesus answered him, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless
    one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 5  Finally and again I fully agree. no argument from me here on any of your points. It seems we are equally yoked on
    your thoughts. We do not particularly go to church either. We do however, study the bible together every Sunday
     morning as a family together. Let me add this does not include the times of being alone, truly seeking God's Spirit and
    Word. That's why I told Cider if you see me in church I will probably be on the back row. Yes Gods Word is amazing.
    Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by The Word.  "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my
    voice, and open
    the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Alan I heard this call, the knock at my hearts
    door and in a church, saved, by his grace in a church. Experiencing Gods spirit and his calling, knocking on my hearts
     door, as he beckoned me, wanting, waiting  and asking me spiritual to let him in.  And praise God I did open that door!
     Where I Believed on him, or however you
     may want to describe the spiritual deliverance of being washed clean of the curse of sin by the Masters touch. Many
     were not saved in a church but other places. I would think location makes no difference. The Master can call anyone
     anywhere anytime as he chooses. Yes God knows our hearts and understands us even better than we understand
     ourselves. Again I agree. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
     the Father, but by me.  He also says in Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and
     it shall be opened unto you: 
 
 And Your Last statement.

"May The Lord come soon" .  I say to that AMEN!  Revelation 22:20 King James Version He which testifieth these
                                           things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
                                           I did not know that it was going to come to this but I thank you for it!! I was simply trying to
                                           share my thought on how WWIII may come as the battle of armageddon and
                                           Kathy said US has no place in biblical prophecy. I was in the process of rebuttleing and you
                                           spoke up and here we are. lol Up until then I do not think I spoke of religion though I did
                                           speak of the battle of armageddon in the biblical book of Revelations . 

Thanks for sharing Alan I hope we can finish our conversation, each of us, while enjoying the fellowship together. 1917 was a tough time.
Blessings
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 05:17:03 am by Ben Framed »

Offline Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3248
  • North Mississippi
Re: 1917
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2020, 04:46:27 am »
No argument here but in all fairness I did just find this. No offence intended. And in fairness to you Alan, their is at least one that says the two are not the same. So may I gracefully go ahead with my thoughts with your support, without offending?

Tower of Babel | Story, Summary, Meaning, & Facts | Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Tower-of-Babel
Tower of Babel, in biblical literature, structure built in the land of Shinar (Babylonia) some time after the Deluge.The story of its construction, given in Genesis 11:1?9, appears to be an attempt to explain the existence of diverse human languages. According to Genesis, the Babylonians wanted to make a name for themselves by building a mighty city and a tower ?with its top in the heavens.?

Babel and Babylon Are the Same City ? AFTER+MATH
chadashby.com/2017/10/25/babel-and-babylon-are...
Babel and Babylon are the same city. In fact, Babel is a transliteration of the Hebrew word בָּבֶל (?Ba-bel?), while Babylon comes from the Greek Βαβυλῶνος (?Babylonos?). In all 233 occurrences of Babel in the Old Testament, it is translated Babylon in Greek. What is more, both the ancient Babel in Genesis 10-11 and the more recent Babylon of Daniel?s day are said to be located in the plains of Shinar (Gen. 10:10; 11:2; Daniel 1:2).


Babylon Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/babylon
Babylon first appears in the Bible under the guise of the tower of Babel ( Gen. 11). The Hebrew word for "confused" in verse 9 is babal , which sounds like babel [ l,b'B ] (Babylon). The great evil of the tower builders is their sinful pride against the rule of God.

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17344
  • Gender: Female
Re: 1917
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2020, 11:25:55 am »
 :grin:

I have some really old theology books that I rescued from my mothers trash pile when she was decluttering things.  These arguments are as old as time.  They are fine discussions to have as long as we do not get lost in the minutia. 

None of them really impact the main message of the bible.  They are things people dig around in after digesting the main message.

One thing I found interesting, and this is a complete aside to this conversation, is how much of protestant theology is impacted by Catholic theology.  I suspect that the only way to get back to a more original interpretation of scripture is to study Christianity as it has been practiced since the beginning in Ethiopia!  They avoided both Catholocism and the Reformation. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3248
  • North Mississippi
Re: 1917
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2020, 12:13:35 pm »
Kathy no argument from me, I am simply suggesting that a world war could take place as described as Armageddon. I am not saying America is or is not in biblical Prophecy, but the technology that is now in most armies and depended on and as you said should all but eliminate the possibility of another world war. Such as 1917 or WWII. So I ask you , what if that technology was nullified, and gave you a hypothetical reason that the technology equation could be eliminated in the future. If this technology was neutered then the world would be in a panic and the possibility of a world war would be wide open as per human nature scratching to survive. Is this fair? If so I would like to finish and point out a few more facts as to why America might play an important part in this? With your or Alans permission?

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 995
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1917
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2020, 02:28:34 pm »
:grin:
. .. None of them really impact the main message of the bible.  They are things people dig around in after digesting the main message.

That is well said Kathy. I agree completely.

Phillip - reading your questions, I'm reminded of Einstein's quote, "I do not know what weapons WW3 will be fought with. But I do know - that WW4 will be fought with Sticks and Stones".

For sure, a future WW would have a component involving Space and Satellite warfare. To what extent? ... I couldn't even hazard a guess.

One Military historian that I read said something to the effect of this "Generals are always training and preparing to win the Last war" ... i.e. everyone gets suprised in war as new technologies are implemented. Will this meet the Biblical definition of Armageddon? ... I dunno. ... "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" Matthew 24:36 kjv
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17344
  • Gender: Female
Re: 1917
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2020, 03:16:02 pm »
Anyone read David Webers Safehold series?  I love his stuff anyway, but part of the story in this series is the evolution of tech in warfare. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 995
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1917
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2020, 03:54:11 pm »
Anyone read David Webers Safehold series?  I love his stuff anyway, but part of the story in this series is the evolution of tech in warfare.

I have not read his work. ... maybe I should add it to my "to read" list.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Online kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17344
  • Gender: Female
Re: 1917
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2020, 04:23:59 pm »
https://www.fantasticfiction.com/w/david-weber/

The other series of his that I have read is Empire of Man.  It's Scifi, but different from most. 

Another good series is Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville