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Author Topic: Swarm trap distance?  (Read 705 times)

Offline Kwalt

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Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2020, 01:35:18 pm »
As far as bringing mites or other diseases home, I guess I?m not concerned. All of the bees here have mites. They can be managed by the method of your choice. I haven?t had any issues with disease. None of my bees have pedigrees and all have open mated queens.

There are two feral hives in tree hollows within a mile of my house, they have been occupied for at least the last couple of years. One of my bait hive locations has a feral hive living in an old central heat furnace under a group of cedar trees. The home owner says it has been occupied for the three years he has owned the property. Healthy hives swarm.

You don?t have to know where a feral hive is to put up a bait hive. Not all of my locations were successful. I just put up a box and wait and see.  One bait hive was put in an area with no hives known to me, but I caught three swarms from the same tree there. It?s like fishing.


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« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 02:36:58 pm by Kwalt »

Offline Nock

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2020, 04:33:27 pm »
Anything in particular you look for In location?

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2020, 04:46:15 pm »
Kwalt - now that is impressive! 

Are you trapping beeks concerned about these bees bringing mites/etc into your bee yard? I've taken swarms, but they were usually mine or my neighbors. This looks like fun!

Seeb a good question. I am thinking that if we treat our swarms or trapped bees before they have capped brood, we should have a huge upper hand in mite control of our new bees. In these scenarios the mites will have nowhere to hide. In the case of a swarm box catch, we can actually treat our bees (before) we bring them home. Of course precautions should be made in order to keep our new catch form leaving our grasp making sure the in the box queen can not leave or have an opportunity to do so. I feel certain that our experts here will chime in and give you more detailed advice. If you decide to try this I wish you successful results.
Blessings,
Phillip   



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« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 05:21:46 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline Kwalt

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Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2020, 05:05:17 pm »
1. Permission from the landowner.
2. Near a creek or river.
3. Morning sun with midday shade.
4. Across the road from someone?s swarming hives.

If you had the boxes I?d stick with number one and try them all. You?ll never know until you try. I try to spread them out no closer than every couple miles.

Avoid trees like the one in this picture. I don?t like poison ivy but the bees didn?t mind.
In my defense this was hung in early spring before this much foliage was visible.


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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2020, 05:22:18 pm »
Kwalt - now that is impressive! 

Are you trapping beeks concerned about these bees bringing mites/etc into your bee yard? I've taken swarms, but they were usually mine or my neighbors. This looks like fun!

Seeb a good question. I am thinking that if we treat our swarms or trapped bees before they have capped brood, we should have a huge upper hand in mite control of our new bees. In these scenarios the mites will have nowhere to hide. In the case of a swarm box catch, we can actually treat our bees (before) we bring them home. Of course precautions should be made in order to keep our new catch form leaving our grasp making sure the in the box queen can not leave or have an opportunity to do so. I feel certain that our experts here will chime in and give you more detailed advice. If you decide to try this I wish you successful results.
Blessings,
Phillip   



Seeb let me add, I like to treat after dusk when most bees are home making sure to get more bang for my treatment. There are different opinions on this, this is the way I prefer.

Kwalt. Good stuff, thanks for posting.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 06:45:47 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline Nock

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2020, 09:38:59 pm »
I had 4out last year with no luck. I think my main problem was I had foundation in all my frames. It was making my trap look smaller than it really was. This year I?m going to just put In starter strips. Change locations and try to put out a dz.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2020, 10:47:05 pm »
I had 4out last year with no luck. I think my main problem was I had foundation in all my frames. It was making my trap look smaller than it really was. This year I?m going to just put In starter strips. Change locations and try to put out a dz.

Nock, I am no expert on this subject.  But I will for your sake share with you the following.  I have watched videos where a fellow puts out jars, filled with sugar water feed,turned upside down with small holes drilled in the caps just as if one was feeding bees boardman style. He puts out in several different locations, that he may choose. He likes locations that is close to a water source and close to a good clean flyways such as gas and electrical rightways. What he does is goes around placing these feed bottles strapped to trees when he thinks he is in a good location. He goes back in a couple days making his rounds and monitors these feed bottle set ups noting bees are indeed covering these and how much feed was taken at each location. From this data he decides where there is a good feral hive hotspot and places his traps accordingly.  He uses at least one comb of old brood comb and swarm commander in each catch box. Hope that helps you.
Phillip

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2020, 10:52:44 pm »

Seeb let me add, I like to treat after dusk when most bees are home making sure to get more bang for my treatment. There are different opinions on this, this is the way I prefer.

Kwalt. Good stuff, thanks for posting.

Phillip - I observed in my hives, when I do OAV treatments in the early mornings or evenings when the bees are clustered, the mite drop is far less than when I do it midday. The only reason I've come up with, is that the field bees are clustered tight around the brood nest in the mornings and evenings, blocking much of the OAV from reaching the core nurse bees where the bulk of the phoretic mites are hanging out. Just food for thought.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2020, 11:08:25 pm »

Seeb let me add, I like to treat after dusk when most bees are home making sure to get more bang for my treatment. There are different opinions on this, this is the way I prefer.

Kwalt. Good stuff, thanks for posting.

Phillip - I observed in my hives, when I do OAV treatments in the early mornings or evenings when the bees are clustered, the mite drop is far less than when I do it midday. The only reason I've come up with, is that the field bees are clustered tight around the brood nest in the mornings and evenings, blocking much of the OAV from reaching the core nurse bees where the bulk of the phoretic mites are hanging out. Just food for thought.

I am always anxious to hear your thoughts Alan, I thought of this very thing and went inside one of these heavy ''beed'' hives to check after one of these late evening hive treatments sessions and was happy to find the bees were completely covered with white power. From that point I had no fear. But let me tell you, you had better be dressed for battle with full suit and gloves! Getting in and out quick, as the bees do not like being disturbed after dusk!   lol .  I think one thing that helps is the bees get mad and fan when they are shut up and OAV is applied in this manner, If you listen closely you can hear the ROAR of their wings when applied. I theorize that this fanning helps even the more of getting an even distribution of OAV throughout the entire hive. Thank you for your comment.  Their is always more than one way to skin a cat. As I said earlier this is the way I do it. 
Blessings,
Phillip

 PS Let me add, So far I have not lost a hive to mites.


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« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 01:19:34 am by Ben Framed »

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2020, 11:24:51 pm »
This thread brings up a question I have pondered often. Whether feral bees are more resistant to varroa than purchased bees. I suppose if the queen who swarmed into my box last spring was from some unknown beekeeper's purchased stock, and that eventually as she is superceded over the years, the new queens will pick up feral DNA.
It is still my plan to catch swarms, stay foundationless, and treatment free. I will let you know how my second year goes.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2020, 11:27:02 pm »
This thread brings up a question I have pondered often. Whether feral bees are more resistant to varroa than purchased bees. I suppose if the queen who swarmed into my box last spring was from some unknown beekeeper's purchased stock, and that eventually as she is superceded over the years, the new queens will pick up feral DNA.
It is still my plan to catch swarms, stay foundationless, and treatment free. I will let you know how my second year goes.

Wishing you the best Bob. Let us know.

Offline Nock

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2020, 12:55:49 am »
I had 4out last year with no luck. I think my main problem was I had foundation in all my frames. It was making my trap look smaller than it really was. This year I?m going to just put In starter strips. Change locations and try to put out a dz.

Nock, I am no expert on this subject.  But I will for your sake share with you the following.  I have watched videos where a fellow puts out jars, filled with sugar water feed,turned upside down with small holes drilled in the caps just as if one was feeding bees boardman style. He puts out in several different locations, that he may choose. He likes locations that is close to a water source and close to a good clean flyways such as gas and electrical rightways. What he does is goes around placing these feed bottles strapped to trees when he thinks he is in a good location. He goes back in a couple days making his rounds and monitors these feed bottle set ups noting bees are indeed covering these and how much feed was taken at each location. From this data he decides where there is a good feral hive hotspot and places his traps accordingly.  He uses at least one comb of old brood comb and swarm commander in each catch box. Hope that helps you.
Phillip
That?s a great idea.

Offline Nock

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2020, 12:58:38 am »
This thread brings up a question I have pondered often. Whether feral bees are more resistant to varroa than purchased bees. I suppose if the queen who swarmed into my box last spring was from some unknown beekeeper's purchased stock, and that eventually as she is superceded over the years, the new queens will pick up feral DNA.
It is still my plan to catch swarms, stay foundationless, and treatment free. I will let you know how my second year goes.
That?s where I want to be as well one day. One reason why I?m wanting to catch feral bees. And eventually raise Queens from. Good luck.

Online Seeb

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2020, 09:27:00 am »
Makes sense Phillip: "I am thinking that if we treat our swarms or trapped bees before they have capped brood, we should have a huge upper hand in mite control of our new bees. In these scenarios the mites will have nowhere to hide."

Your description of the video of the man walking power lines etc, putting out jars of sugar water prompted me to remember my brother checking his traps for critters before heading to school in the mornings. We would eat the rabbits he caught and a man down the road ate the possums. Bee trapping is not so different. I guess that's why it appeals to me.
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Offline William Bagwell

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2020, 09:52:58 am »
Follow up to Bob's question. How many generations from the original swam do bees become truly feral?

Like others here hope to catch a swarm or three this spring. 99+% chance they will be from a neighbors hive and obviously not yet feral. Coworker is going to let me put one trap hive at his place. Only a few miles from here but he is at the base of a mountain so perhaps a better chance of ferals there. Unknown how many beekeepers / hives near him. Have at least two keepers close to me.

Also hope to someday be treatment free but realize how hard this will be. Looking at thermal as a backup plan so can at least start out and remain chemical free.

Made a deposit on a nuc of TF local survivors. However once I move them the 60 miles to here they may wind up 'treat less bees' rather than TF.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Swarm trap distance?
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2020, 10:13:12 am »
Makes sense Phillip: "I am thinking that if we treat our swarms or trapped bees before they have capped brood, we should have a huge upper hand in mite control of our new bees. In these scenarios the mites will have nowhere to hide."

Your description of the video of the man walking power lines etc, putting out jars of sugar water prompted me to remember my brother checking his traps for critters before heading to school in the mornings. We would eat the rabbits he caught and a man down the road ate the possums. Bee trapping is not so different. I guess that's why it appeals to me.

Thank you for your reply Seeb, I need to apologize as I was not clear on walking the power lines, actually he drove around, finding such easy access places next to the roads and went from there but it is the same concept. I grew up in the country also and relate to your brothers trap line. Many country boys made good extra money by trapping his lines. It use to be that other animals were valuable as well. Mink, Coon fox, bobcat etc. thank you for sharing your memories of your brothers adventures.
Phillip