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Author Topic: Hive starvation.  (Read 1752 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2020, 09:33:21 pm »
my first hive . i was concerned about the amount of stores they  had going into winter. so fed 32 lbs sugar as 2 to 1 syrup. they took it all , each batch in 2or 3 days.tried to lift the hive. it has is home built and has really strong handles. i could not lift it . does anyone think they will be short?

beesonhay465  and Bob Wilson
Weighing hives going into winter has been discussed here before. For your peace of mind, you might want to check out some of the topics on this and give it some thought before going into the next fall and winter season.
Phillip


Offline jvalentour

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2020, 09:52:23 pm »

Posted by: FatherMichael
? on: Today at 01:33:51 pm ?

It's 45* outside here with a light breeze but my bees are bringing in pollen.  Have no idea where they are getting it.


Father Michael,
Try this link:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pollen_sources

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2020, 08:49:15 am »

Posted by: FatherMichael
? on: Today at 01:33:51 pm ?

It's 45* outside here with a light breeze but my bees are bringing in pollen.  Have no idea where they are getting it.


Father Michael,
Try this link:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pollen_sources

Thanks, J!

By the early date and color it could be willow.  There is a pond not far from here with willow around it.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2020, 09:24:13 am »
Ace, Question, are u discussing, stealing honey in July-August. And trying to feed 2:1 , to build back up ?
Whether you steal honey or not the hive needs x number of pounds of honey based on its cluster size for your AERA to overwinter.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2020, 09:33:54 am »
Pretty sure a shivering cluster uses more stores than a warm winter.
Usually the opposite which means I need to learn what that is for FL.  Although, when push come to shove the greatest consumption of honey is raising bees.  Feeding bees is a double edge sword.  It encourages raising more brood.  It upsets what bees would normally do if left alone.  I hate to see beginners feeding bees because it can complicate things when a beginner is not ready for it.  My advice is get experience on how nature handles it, do or die.  You will be enormously surprised how resourceful bees are if left alone.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2020, 09:38:48 am »
Pretty sure a shivering cluster uses more stores than a warm winter.
Usually the opposite which means I need to learn what that is for FL.  Although, when push come to shove the greatest consumption of honey is raising bees.  Feeding bees is a double edge sword.  It encourages raising more brood.  It upsets what bees would normally do if left alone.  I hate to see beginners feeding bees because it can complicate things when a beginner is not ready for it.  My advice is get experience on how nature handles it, do or die.  You will be enormously surprised how resourceful bees are if left alone.

Good post Ace

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2020, 12:09:29 pm »
Pretty sure a shivering cluster uses more stores than a warm winter.
Usually the opposite which means I need to learn what that is for FL.  Although, when push come to shove the greatest consumption of honey is raising bees.  Feeding bees is a double edge sword.  It encourages raising more brood.  It upsets what bees would normally do if left alone.  I hate to see beginners feeding bees because it can complicate things when a beginner is not ready for it.  My advice is get experience on how nature handles it, do or die.  You will be enormously surprised how resourceful bees are if left alone.

There are more bees in warm climates than in colder ones.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2020, 01:42:51 pm »
Ace:
The goal of a beekeeper is to prepare the hive in fall for the winter dearth and take what comes.  I know, a bit of a guessing game.


Agreed, Mr. Ace, my goal from the beginning of Spring through Fall is to prepare my bees for the following winter.

Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2020, 05:45:05 pm »
You will be enormously surprised at how bee can handle if left alone. YES EXACTLY.  I don't feed overwintered hives only splits in nuc boxes, until our nectar flow. Ace, what Bob said he didn't take, and I said same thing. I don't take what bee's have done for themselves. The only reason I would cram sugar water is because they are in trouble. And it can be they didn't do their job (which is a problem) not because I took from them.

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2020, 06:01:35 pm »
Ace, if u would clarify, so all understand . what u mean by bee's not having a good fall flow ?
As I know here in my area we don't have a good fall flow, so pulling capped honey like some do in different areas in June-July is a no-no here. But newbeeks , read and hear what is said. I'm not in it for honey only keeping bee's alive yr after yr is my goal. Question have u figured out bee's in FL. compared to NY ?

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2020, 06:57:49 pm »
I read somewhere (maybe Bush Farms?) that if possible, leave the bees all their honey till late fall when winter prep comes, then pull off excess, leaving them plenty for their winter. Just take less honey. That way we never have to feed syrup unless they failed in drought to provide for their own in the year. The bees get the most healthy diet, their own honey.
Of course I am a hobbyist, and don't require a living off honey.

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2020, 07:46:20 pm »
Both scholarly and commercial beekeepers affirm that the modal size of a brood chamber that both raises brood and stores enough to make it through the winter is a single deep hive body.

Whatever is collected in supers (not named accidentally) seems a legitimate "take" for the beekeeper if he or she is sure the brood chamber is back-filled enough for winter.

The back filling can be accomplished by a good fall flow or by feeding, right?

Hard to eliminate judgment calls, eh?

Would we have it any other way?

I'm kinda proud to be a farmer ...

And a shepherd.

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2020, 07:46:32 pm »
Bob, how do u know what's enough ?

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2020, 07:58:45 pm »
I'm asking how can anyone know ?

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2020, 08:02:01 pm »
So don't pull . it's not like honeys going bad. If bee's get through winter , come spring I pull, before splits.

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2020, 09:00:05 pm »
So don't pull . it's not like honeys going bad. If bee's get through winter , come spring I pull, before splits.

Cotton honey granulates rather quickly.  Timing that out relative to harvest vs. winter stores ...

Here in my part of Texas we have in order of flow: wildflowers, Mesquite, cotton, and then Sunflowers, Broom Weed, and Spanish Gold.

I hope to build up with wildflowers, discreetly harvest Mesquite and cotton, and then let the bees have the rest for winter.

We'll see, eh?

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2020, 11:23:05 pm »
Mikey, bear in mind I am sharing research, not experience. I read that in my area of Georgia, 35lbs of honey is enough for our short winters, while up north they may need twice that.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2020, 09:40:55 am »
Ace, if u would clarify, so all understand . what u mean by bee's not having a good fall flow ?
I will say what is typical in the north.  I don't yet have bees here in FL... too occupied renovating my house.
Bees prepare for winter.  They gather nectar all summer long for two purposes.  One is to raise winter bees and the other is to overwinter.  Overwintering includes raising spring bees.  The actual amount of honey needed to make it through the cold months is only a fraction of what is required to make the spring bees.  Most northern states have a heavy flow, usually goldenrod and aster or knot weed.  Some say this is not good to overwinter on because it can cause dysentery.  I took honey only in the fall from the top boxes so  more of the spring and summer honey was left for the bees if they did not consume it all making winter bees.
You can play roulette by taking more in the fall then you should and feed like heck in the spring.  If it weren't for the fluctuation in weather it would work great.  So as the bees intended leave an excess in the fall to cover the unknown.
From what I have read the south is quite different.  They may or may not have a fall flow.  Their flows in general are not as plentiful.  They have much longer periods of flying weather (which consumes more honey) but they also have nectar available for a longer period of time and they can be fed more easily.  That being said, granular sugar is not a good feed.  They can't take it fast enough to store it.  If you can, feeding syrup is the answer.  If they can't store the feed they can't raise brood.  If they can't raise brood it is a downward spiral to perishing.  The south also does not have a reprieve from SHB and wax moth like the north does. So in general managing a hive in the south is quite different then the north.  A beekeeper must lean the location his bees are in.  You can get advice on the internet but helpful advice comes from your neighbor who is raising bees.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline cao

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2020, 12:23:43 pm »
Typically I pull honey after the 4th of July.  That's usually when they have it capped.  It is when my hives are the tallest.  I have had a few that were 7 medium 10 frame boxes tall.  After harvesting, I start condensing the larger hives and add boxes to the smaller ones as they grow.  My goal is to get the hives to about 3-4 medium boxes.  3 is enough for them to overwinter without feeding.  The fourth is for insurance and typically isn't completely full.  I hope to have them in the boxes that they will overwinter in before the fall flow.  In my area I have found that it is not real reliable.  So I try to leave enough when I pull honey for them to overwinter.  I usually only need to feed is the new splits from that year.  And the last couple of years they have gotten mountain camp sugar on top if they seemed a little light on stores.

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Hive starvation.
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2020, 05:54:36 pm »
Ace, Question, are u discussing, stealing honey in July-August. And trying to feed 2:1 , to build back up ?


If you  have a strong hive you may be robbing from May till November. 

Note...I never touch what they have in the two deep brood boxes?that remains all  theirs.

I have one hive that will pump out a 2-3 medium supers in spring , 2 mediums in summer and 1-3 of fall honey (if we don't drought out like last year).

like I said this is all in excess of what they have in the bottom 2 boxes.