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Author Topic: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'  (Read 5649 times)

Online Ben Framed

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #160 on: May 03, 2020, 11:02:29 am »
>I personally think that when we place an acceptable number of human deaths in order to earn dollars we lose our humanity.

I appreciate what you are saying and have said similar myself.
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Just watched the Ingram Angle Cool. Yes on Fox News. Your state of 45 Million has lost 1,776 lives. (If reported correctly). This is tragic and sad for each life lost, for each family that has suffered. So sad, if we picture each family standing beside the grave side of a so loved one.
But losing millions and millions as first reported? Similar to the bird flu of 1917? Maybe the Bat flu?  You was right the first time THIS MAY BE A HOAX! Stand your ground West Coast friend. lol

Milo we in America lose between 20,000 to 60,000 to flu each year. We have NEVER shut down our economy because of a YEARLY flu. What about your country, and your flu numbers? As I have said and keep saying, The numbers do not add up.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online Kathyp

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #161 on: May 03, 2020, 01:29:34 pm »
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Fair enough Kathy, I see your reasoning and if all humans were competent and trustworthy I?d agree, unfortunately there are many that aren?t and as much as you do the safe thing for yourself and family the fella standing next to you at the shops may not. I must confess I did not like being told how to live my life by the government though.

The longer it takes to control this virus the longer it will take for us to get back to normal. Worldwide.

this is true, but we understand that in all that we do.  We get in our cars every day knowing that there may be a distracted or impaired driver, and we might be killed or injured because someone else is stupid.  Still, we drive.

You can't control a virus.  This, I think, is the great disconnect in thinking that people need to deal with.  We try to control the flu every year with vaccines.  Around the world, 100s of thousands die of the flu each year. 
Sometimes, if we are very lucky, we get something like SARS, which was less contagious and easier to spot, and we get a handle on it.  Try as they might though, they never developed a vaccine for SARS.  They just got lucky.  Pretty much the same with MERS.  If you have not read about MERS, do so.  It is one nasty, scary, disease with a very high death rate. 

This virus is very contagious.  By the time we had seen what was happening in China, many 1000s of Chinese had traveled around the world.  No matter the choices any country made, the virus was and is, out.  Staying locked up will not change that.

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I personally think that when we place an acceptable number of human deaths in order to earn dollars we lose our humanity. There will be a portion of the population in Sweden that will be thinking ?I wish we were over the border, maybe [insert significant other here] would be alive?. And it?s often a case of ?it?s acceptable, as long as it?s not in my backyard?

I don't believe this is an either/or issue.  Either we stay shut up in our homes, or people die in mass numbers are not the only choices.

  There is a human cost to destroying the economy.  There is a personal loss for those who have spent a lifetime building a business.  There is personal economic loss as inflation sets in.  There is a financial loss for those who wish to save for the future or depend on dividends for part of their retirement.  There is an education loss as we keep kids out of school and universities are shut down. 

We are already seeing an uptick in suicides, domestic abuse, alcohol and drug use.  We are seeing our food supply chain breaking down, and long lines at food banks.

The solution from some of my "I don't think things all the way through" friends is that the government will step in and support people until this is over.  Where does the government get its money?  Taxes, borrowing, or printing.  Every choice has an economic price and that price ends up on the heads of the people.

There is another thing to remember:  As we speak, crops are being eaten by locust swarms in Africa and they will probably hit the Arabian Peninsula again.  What happens when you have a large number of people who are starving and feeling hopeless?  What happens when the countries who usually have an excess and can help, don't have that capacity because they decided to try to do something stupid like lock up and hid from a virus.


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That assumes that having the antigens will prevent reinfection.

Just read a report that they believe once infected, you can't get it again.

The % of people who will get this will not change.  The only difference is how quickly you can get everyone through this.  What we have done will just make it all last longer.




 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Milo

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #162 on: May 03, 2020, 05:56:03 pm »
You are missing a critical component.
We need to know the portion of the population exposed / infected in order to project the total expected deaths. Sweden may be significantly closer to the end of the pandemic than other countries.

No I?m not missing it, I keep saying you cannot compare the data from the different country?s.


Offline incognito

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #163 on: May 04, 2020, 09:14:52 am »
You was right the first time THIS MAY BE A HOAX!
Long Island, New York (Nassau and Suffolk County) has 70,000 cases and 3,000 deaths so far.
My wife, a critical care health care worker assigned to rapid responses at a local hospital, has tested positive for the antigen (it detects some type of Corona virus). Several of her coworkers tested positive for the virus. My sister in law just tested positive for the virus.

This is not a hoax.
Tom

Online Kathyp

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #164 on: May 04, 2020, 11:12:39 am »
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This is not a hoax.

It is not.  I also don't blame the powers that be for the reactions to it.  Now that we are getting more info on infection rate vs death and hospitalization rate, those powers need to rethink the reaction.  Go back to the original goal of not overwhelming the system, use some smart precautions to protect those who need protection, and get the country opened up.

We need to remember also that people from different vocations have different ways of looking at things.  Medical people want everyone to be healthy and no one to die.  That's a good thing if you land in their care.  It is not a practical way of looking at all of life.

Last nite I got one of my FB friends to finally tell me how long he thought we should remain closed up.  "Until there are no new cases of the virus." was his answer.  I don't think that any thinking person would agree with that. 



They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2020, 01:59:41 pm »
If we were to all wait for perfect conditions our species wouldn't even exist.  It is overcoming risk and danger that makes us stronger and drives evolution.  I, for one, am not going to hide in my hole and wait for a perfect return to the pre-CV19 world.

I survived the polio plague without illness, the bird flu and it's poisonous, often lethal vaccine (I'll avoid the first issue CV19 vaccine, thank you, lesson learned).  I got through my teenage years somehow, and lived to tell about it.  I even made it through this far in life to become a member of the "High Risk" category for CV19.  Yes, all the experts expect me to hide for months to come, to be "safe".  To hell with them.  I will take prudent precautions when I'm out and about, but I'm going in to work 5 days a week, shopping, camping and fishing.

Something, some day will kill me.  Maybe this crap will be it, or maybe I have another 30 years left until another plague gets me.  Unelected physician-bureaucrats have had far too much control over our lives in this matter.  I aim to live what life I have left with gusto and without hand-wringing.  And with a bit of prudence.
My new motto:  Ain't Skeered!
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline iddee

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #166 on: May 04, 2020, 02:53:18 pm »
AMEN, Hops. ME, TOO.

At 75, what have I got to lose? I would rather live another happy month than 20 miserable years.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline CoolBees

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #167 on: May 04, 2020, 04:01:28 pm »
Hops - you nailed my attitude towards this whole thing. Something is gonna kill me for sure - but I ain't gonna quit livin' till then. ... I caught some trout this weekend ... gonna chase down some wild boar later this week  :grin: ... you gotta keep livin'

I can't understand the people who've locked themselves up in fear - we don't get out of life alive folks - GO LIVE! (1 man's opinion here)  :cool:
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline incognito

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #168 on: May 04, 2020, 04:16:55 pm »
Medical people want everyone to be healthy and no one to die.
I aim to live what life I have left with gusto and without hand-wringing.  And with a bit of prudence.
At 75, what have I got to lose? I would rather live another happy month than 20 miserable years.
Kathy, Hops, Iddee,
Well said.
Last week I decided it was time to resume physical therapy after taking a month off due to covid 19. Actually, the physical therapists asked me not to come in when they learned that my wife was a health care professional and I showed up with a mask on.

You reminded me of a book.
I recommend reading Being Mortal - Medicine and What Matters in the End by Atul Gawande. Published by Metropolitan Books. It is written by a physician, the son of two physicians, and how medicine treats terminally ill patients.


Tom

Offline incognito

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #169 on: May 04, 2020, 04:32:39 pm »
I can't understand the people who've locked themselves up in fear - we don't get out of life alive folks - GO LIVE!
I can say for myself that is was not due to fear itself.

I self-isolated: 1) because I could; 2) to give the health care professionals time to handle the surge; and 3) to buy time for the health care professionals to experiment with treatments. I fully expected my wife to bring the virus home with her and share it with me despite the self-isolation.
The hospitals in this part of the state were inundated. Things are just starting to get back to the new normal. My wife's unit is going to start up again soon. The staff (critical care trained) was reassigned to the Ambulatory Surgery Unit which was converted into a makeshift covid 19 ICU.
Tom

Offline CoolBees

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #170 on: May 04, 2020, 07:00:41 pm »
I can't understand the people who've locked themselves up in fear - we don't get out of life alive folks - GO LIVE!
I can say for myself that is was not due to fear itself.

I self-isolated: 1) because I could; 2) to give the health care professionals time to handle the surge; and 3) to buy time for the health care professionals to experiment with treatments. I fully expected my wife to bring the virus home with her and share it with me despite the self-isolation.
The hospitals in this part of the state were inundated. Things are just starting to get back to the new normal. My wife's unit is going to start up again soon. The staff (critical care trained) was reassigned to the Ambulatory Surgery Unit which was converted into a makeshift covid 19 ICU.

Incognito - to clarify my statement - I was only referring to the many cases that I've seen of perfectly healthy people cowering in fear, unwilling to even step out their front door - people I personally know.

The elderly should definitely take caution, as should the vulnerable, & people in your situation, etc. All of these I readily understand. ... and many thanks to the health care professionals who are putting their lives on the line to help others!

I could/should have clarified this better to start with. Thanks for pointing it out.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Online Kathyp

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #171 on: May 04, 2020, 07:32:40 pm »
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to give the health care professionals time to handle the surge

and that was the flattening the curve bit.  Perfectly reasonable call considering where you are

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I fully expected my wife to bring the virus home with her and share it with me despite the self-isolation.

Yeah, I expected hubby to bring it home.  He may have.  I was sick twice in late winter and I never get sick.  Who knows?  One of us will get the antibody test when we can and assume the results apply to both of us   :grin:

Every person and every area has to make its own decisions.  Unfortunately, that didn't happen even within states.  My gov just issued an edict that she had emergency power to extend our shut down for another 60 days.  Of course, she doesn't know there is any more to the state than Portland and Salem.  A growing number are flipping her the bird and opening up. 

Laws are passed by legislatures.  Most of what these governors are doing is not law.  They may have limited emergency powers, but those powers must apply to the situation, not to their ideology.   I hope there are court cases so that this stuff can be cleared up before we ever have to face something like this again.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline incognito

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #172 on: May 04, 2020, 11:00:56 pm »
One of us will get the antibody test when we can and assume the results apply to both of us.
That did not work for us.
She tested positive for antigens- had a vial of blood drawn at work. Positive could be from other corona viruses, not the new one.
I was not reactive (negative) to the pin prick drop of blood on paper test.

Tom

Offline incognito

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #173 on: May 04, 2020, 11:10:34 pm »
My wife's unit is going to start up again soon.
Well Governor Cuomo says not yet to reopening. No elective procedures until the end of the month. How absurd! The hospital can handle it now. They can always cancel the elective procedures if the virus spikes again. Her unit was kept clean of corona but they still did the deep clean last week.


There was a small open NY protest a few miles from my home this weekend. We are getting fed up with it too.
Tom

Offline CoolBees

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #174 on: May 05, 2020, 03:42:54 pm »
This guy sums up all of the various information about the virus that has been coming to light recently.

https://newswithviews.com/covid-19-is-quacking-like-the-flu/
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Online Kathyp

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #175 on: May 05, 2020, 07:29:20 pm »
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No elective procedures until the end of the month. How absurd!

And there will be fallout from this.  Here, the clinics are closed and doctors are doing phone or video consults.  How many diseases are being missed, or biopsies not done because of this?  Their definition of elective is anything other than an emergency.  My mother in CA had an angiogram scheduled for last month and it was canceled.  That's kinda important, but it's not an emergency...until she dies I guess. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online Ben Framed

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #176 on: May 05, 2020, 11:38:29 pm »
HUM




For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #177 on: May 05, 2020, 11:43:59 pm »
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No elective procedures until the end of the month. How absurd!

....  How many diseases are being missed, or biopsies not done because of this?  Their definition of elective is anything other than an emergency.  My mother in CA had an angiogram scheduled for last month and it was canceled.  That's kinda important, but it's not an emergency...until she dies I guess.

Now that you bring this up Kathy - our friend just died last Friday from an undiagnosed gastrointestinal infection. They sent her home on the 1st visit without checking her out because of "Covid". She was back 2 days later, but it was too late. 36 years old and beautiful. Very sad!  :angry:
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Milo

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #178 on: May 06, 2020, 07:07:53 am »
Testing here is now open to all comers free of charge so the state government can see if there are any undiagnosed cases of community transmission.

Stood in line (social distancing - paint marks on the bitumen for those that can?t work it out) for my swab. Looooooong swab down the throat then right into the sinus up both nostrils. Made my eyes water. Results in five days.

I don?t expect anything but who knows and only testing will get them to open so...

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
« Reply #179 on: May 06, 2020, 09:27:02 am »
As a first responder, I have to get tested today. Not looking forward to this.
Jim Altmiller