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Author Topic: Concrete and beetles???  (Read 739 times)

Offline BAHBEEs

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Concrete and beetles???
« on: January 15, 2020, 12:19:18 pm »
Concrete musings...

So, here is the question. 

Does anyone know if placing hive on concrete away form any soil  has any effect at all on hive beetle populations seen in a hive?

Barry

Offline paus

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 12:46:31 pm »
I heard one of the noted PHD speakers at Texas state bee convention say that he walked into the lab building one AM and there were SHB Larva crawling all over the building. The conclusion that hit me.      A landing strip is not big enough to stop SHB larva.

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 12:57:43 pm »
Pretty much what I am hearing.

Man I hate em!

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 01:21:37 pm »
I've no personal knowledge - but I read (somewhere - probably here, a couple yrs ago) that SHB larvae could easily cross 20'+ of concrete to get to earth they could dive into.

The larvae are [always] coming from a hive, and headed to dirt - as I understand it.

I see very few SHB, but I discovered last year that they are a real problem in my area (for others). I attribute my lack of them for 5 years now (fingers crossed), to my chickens that run free most days. I read that chickens can smell the larvae from a good distance and target them quickly. ... buuut I didn't ask the chickens if it true - I just read it somewhere.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 01:29:53 pm »
I heard one of the noted PHD speakers at Texas state bee convention say that he walked into the lab building one AM and there were SHB Larva crawling all over the building. The conclusion that hit me.      A landing strip is not big enough to stop SHB larva.

Pretty much what I am hearing.

Man I hate em!

I hate em too. I heard the same thing from Dr Jamie Ellis who was researching them at the University of Florida. Since the larva were crawling throughout the night; (now these are not his words or theory but mine), there is zero chance that the heat of the day and hot concrete will kill them as long as they can make it to soil before the sun does its job on them?  Now my theory may be wrong? They may be able to withstand the hot concrete? They are tough for sure. Dr Ellis also stated that they can fly miles to reach a beehive, I cannot remember how far he said but I have read somewhere since, that they can fly 7 miles to reach our hives, some say further. A fierce competitor for sure. Have you had problems with them Barry?
Phillip
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 01:52:46 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online AR Beekeeper

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 02:43:34 pm »
The beetle larvae usually exit the hive at night, and this protects them from chickens and birds.  They crawl long distances to go to earth, but I have been told by beekeepers that crawling more than 20 feet on hot concrete will kill some of the larvae before they reach the edge.  I have seen this happen when shaking out comb from deadouts.

I have read that 80% of beetle larvae that drop onto earth from the hive will pupate within 4 feet of the hive.  I have wondered if there is a tendency to crawl in a particular direction from the hive or if it is just a random dispersal.  I know that putting a board down in front of the entrance in summer to keep grass down attracts both adults and larvae to the ground under the board.  This is due to the ground under the board being moist compared to the surrounding area.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2020, 03:39:49 pm »
The beetle larvae usually exit the hive at night, and this protects them from chickens and birds.  They crawl long distances to go to earth, but I have been told by beekeepers that crawling more than 20 feet on hot concrete will kill some of the larvae before they reach the edge.  I have seen this happen when shaking out comb from deadouts.

I have read that 80% of beetle larvae that drop onto earth from the hive will pupate within 4 feet of the hive.  I have wondered if there is a tendency to crawl in a particular direction from the hive or if it is just a random dispersal.  I know that putting a board down in front of the entrance in summer to keep grass down attracts both adults and larvae to the ground under the board.  This is due to the ground under the board being moist compared to the surrounding area.

Makes perfect sense. Good post AR
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2020, 03:46:02 pm »
Thinking about it,  maybe the chickens scratch and dig until they find the larva unless the larva burrow to deep?  The chickens only scratch the surface to a certain extent.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2020, 04:48:50 pm »
Ben,

Yes I do see Hive beetles.  Less this year than last (I learned that any void too small for a bee becomes a haven for beetles...and closed those up) but I did have one hive I took over from someone else that left the hive.  when I opened it up...hive beetles or wax moths or both.  The culprits where gone as well, leaving only some webbing and a lot of larvae. I saw a few moths around that hive as well so I am not sure which actually got it.

I may have to get back into chickens...

Barry

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2020, 06:53:08 pm »
Ben,

Yes I do see Hive beetles.  Less this year than last (I learned that any void too small for a bee becomes a haven for beetles...and closed those up) but I did have one hive I took over from someone else that left the hive.  when I opened it up...hive beetles or wax moths or both.  The culprits where gone as well, leaving only some webbing and a lot of larvae. I saw a few moths around that hive as well so I am not sure which actually got it.

I may have to get back into chickens...

Barry

Thanks Barry, I may be wrong but I am almost positive that when you see webbing, and worms it is usually wax moths. Not to say you may very well have experienced both. I do not want to discourage the use of chickens, They are a win, win, win situation. Meat, eggs and hopefully a few less SHB. lol .  Wishing you the best.
Phillip
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2020, 07:19:49 pm »
I've heard , at first look their hard to tell the difference, don't know personally. I've only seen frames destroyed by moths. I've read everything about shb that I can, and have watched videos of Dr. Ellis telling of larvae crawling hundreds of yards to soil. Have read about salt, dimotacius earth, oyster shells ground up. But what I've not heard is acidity in soil or lack of acid. The reason I bring this up, here in the sand hills of N.C. with all the pine trees , great for azalea an blueberries, terrible for a vegetable garden. But here I've not seen a big threat of shb, not saying it can't. Just wondering if acidity can have a effect ?

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 07:53:51 pm »
I've no personal knowledge - but I read (somewhere - probably here, a couple yrs ago) that SHB larvae could easily cross 20'+ of concrete to get to earth they could dive into.

The larvae are [always] coming from a hive, and headed to dirt - as I understand it.

I see very few SHB, but I discovered last year that they are a real problem in my area (for others). I attribute my lack of them for 5 years now (fingers crossed), to my chickens that run free most days. I read that chickens can smell the larvae from a good distance and target them quickly. ... buuut I didn't ask the chickens if it true - I just read it somewhere.

Cool, please read.

That is interesting, Mr. Cool that you don?t have worries with small hive beetle.  I thought you had a warm environment, perfect for the small hive beetle.  Do me a big favor.  Talk with other beeks in your area and determine if lack of beetles is unique to your area or just your apiary.  If absence of beetles is area wide, that would prove most interesting and we could start asking why?  Maybe you have a beetle eating critter some where, maybe like the natural nematodes or whatever.

Van
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2020, 07:59:36 pm »
Very good reasoning Mr Van. Mikey also. Good post each of you.
Phillip
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2020, 08:06:39 pm »


Cool, please read.

That is interesting, Mr. Cool that you don?t have worries with small hive beetle.  I thought you had a warm environment, perfect for the small hive beetle.  Do me a big favor.  Talk with other beeks in your area and determine if lack of beetles is unique to your area or just your apiary.  If absence of beetles is area wide, that would prove most interesting and we could start asking why?  Maybe you have a beetle eating critter some where, maybe like the natural nematodes or whatever.

Van

I'll do that Van. I distantly know several Beeks within 20 miles of me. The closest one is a commercial operation about 2.5 miles away. He's nice to talk to. I'll stop by his place and ask him one of these days - if he has or has had problems with SHB's.

I've heard 2nd hand (at the farm stores, at nurseries, from friends, etc), that many hives have been lost to them, in the local area. Personally - I see about 4 beetles a year. ... but that doesn't mean I won't have a problem someday.
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Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2020, 08:18:32 pm »
Cool , what is acidity in your soil ?

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2020, 08:22:29 pm »
Van, Ben same question.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2020, 11:23:27 pm »
Van, Ben same question.

Mikey, I will confess I do not know but I do know SHB thrive in my area.  I had some PH strips. I will see if I can find them and check.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2020, 10:24:34 am »
Not sure on pH, but N. Alabama and N Georgia are both largely fat heavy red to orange clays.

Right now my yard would eat a truck...in late august you almost cant drill a hole in the ground.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2020, 01:22:22 pm »
Cool , what is acidity in your soil ?

I don't know. I've never tested it.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Concrete and beetles???
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2020, 06:33:31 pm »
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Well water is the far right strip, say 6.9 pH,  the middle color patch on each strip is the indicator.  Yellow is acidic, blue is alkaline.  The two strips on the left are the dirt, soil.
I have large numbers of small hive beetles and must constantly monitor, which in some cases means leave alone the hive, don?t open.,,, sometimes.
Soil in my apiary is below 6.0 pH, the two strips left.  My soil in the apiary, N. Arkansas is very acidic.

Van
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 08:05:01 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.