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Author Topic: What is too close?  (Read 864 times)

Offline Newby

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What is too close?
« on: December 28, 2019, 06:16:30 am »
I have been approached by a bee keeper to put some hives on the back of my property.  We found out out neighbour also has some hives about 500m away on their property.  We both back onto a state forest.  The neighbour does not want me to allow the hives on my property he believes they are too close.  The people who want to put the hives on my property don't think it would be a problem. 

Online iddee

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2019, 07:48:05 am »
The total number of hives in an area should number no more than about 25, as a normal, tongue-in-cheek accepted practice.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2019, 11:55:41 am »
How many does he have.  Do you have any?  He likely is concerned about disease and competition.  Both are valid worries.

In a good area that is not already over populated with hives the distance should not be a problem.   Maybe get the two beekeepers together to work out their concerns? 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Offline Xerox

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2019, 11:57:43 am »
Robbing could be an issue if the hives are too close. Along with that varia transfer. Probably talk with him and work something out.
3 hives died in 1 year. I need to start with two hives.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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What is too close?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2019, 01:30:42 pm »
How many are the -some hives- ?
What are the numbers.

.... the some being asked to be placed ?
.... the some that the neighbour has ?
.... how many homes (households) are in the area.

There is no too close.  Hives can be back2back side2side.  As per iddee, the matter is hive density in the area needs review for:  forage support, disease/pest control, nearby residences.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 02:29:05 pm by TheHoneyPump »
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2019, 03:54:13 pm »
Newbe,
Welcome to Beemaster.
Please add your location to your profile.
As mentioned it is important to know how many hives are you dealing with as well as how much food is available in your area.
In the spring, commercial beeks bring thousands of hives to north Florida. For the spring gallberry bloom they place 64 hives per location. They used to put one group within 20 feet of my property. When they do that I get very little honey and they also get very little as compared to their other sites. The next closest location that I know of if less than a mile. That is too close. One year after the big fire none of the commercials placed any hives. That year I made 500 pounds of honey with 9 hives. Being too close and too many does cause problems.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2019, 05:25:28 pm »
Last Autumn we got socalled "poached" by other bee keepers. We had 100 hives in a group and had another BK put 200 hives about 2km away that had an effect on our production. With the tree population in the area about 4-5km away would have been better.
Again like Jim, everyone gets less production from hives too close.
In dense forest areas 3km (2 mile) apart is considered acceptable.

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2019, 09:20:34 pm »
Dr.Thomas Seely reports that individual hives should be at least 30 meters apart within an apiary to decrease Varroa transmission.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2019, 12:23:58 am »
Dr.Thomas Seely reports that individual hives should be at least 30 meters apart within an apiary to decrease Varroa transmission.

Dr Seely is pretty sharp when it comes to SHB. Dr Ramsey is the foremost expert on varroa from what I have read. But I am not disputing Dr Seeleys claim.  If we study professional beekeepers, we will see that many use pallets which hold anywhere from 2 to 4 hives on each pallet. Lined up in rows. I am referring to Ian Stepler in particular as per his blogs. Ian is very good at commercial beekeeping and that includes varroa control. I would suggest watching his blogs if you have not indulged. Very interesting and informing.
Phillip
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline cao

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2019, 12:24:49 am »
The total number of hives in an area should number no more than about 25, as a normal, tongue-in-cheek accepted practice.
So the 50 or so in my backyard is too many?  :shocked:  And the other 30 I have a mile away would be too many bees in the area?

I do think that I am near the upper limit in my area without supplemental feeding.

Online iddee

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2019, 09:33:48 am »
cao, in the middle of a million acre pine forest with controlled undergrowth, one may be too many. If the neighbor across the street has a thousand acres of almonds, the one next to him has 500 acres of clover, and you have a thousand acres of canola, 500 hives may be too few. That's why I said ""tongue-in-cheek". No two areas are going to be exactly the same. As the others have posted, there are many variables.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2020, 06:14:37 pm »
I've often had hives right by my door with no problems.  But then I have had some that got mean that were 100 yards and that was too close.  Right now my hives are about hundred yards from the house and have been for the last 7 years in this location and were for the last 13 years at my old location with no issues.  Bees are like dogs.  You don't want to keep a mean one around, but very few of them are mean.
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Offline beesonhay465

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2020, 09:54:12 am »
i am a new bee keeper  my hive is about 4 feet across the fence from the neighbor's play equipment. i work them in tee shirt and do not own a smoker . if they were mean they would be GONE.  :grin:

Offline Acebird

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2020, 06:05:16 pm »
i am a new bee keeper  my hive is about 4 feet across the fence from the neighbor's play equipment.
I would try to avoid this situation.  A hive can go queenless and be testy for a month.  If the hive is four ft from where kids play you would be forced to move it. Well I guess unless they were you own kids. LOL
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2020, 03:07:51 am »
i am a new bee keeper  my hive is about 4 feet across the fence from the neighbor's play equipment. i work them in tee shirt and do not own a smoker . if they were mean they would be GONE.  :grin:

It may be coming.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 03:44:28 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2020, 08:16:10 am »
[It may be coming.] ??

Ben. It may be coming... Trouble with the children across the fence and the neighbors,
Or it may be coming... Having your own kids.
How old are you?

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2020, 11:34:32 am »
[It may be coming.] ??

Ben. It may be coming... Trouble with the children across the fence and the neighbors,
Or it may be coming... Having your own kids.
How old are you?

Bob, I was answering the statement that beesonhay465 made and I quoted ''i am a new bee keeper  my hive is about 4 feet across the fence from the neighbor's play equipment. i work them in tee shirt and do not own a smoker . if they were mean they would be GONE.''
So I answered him, '' It may be coming'',
I suppose I took for granted that all who read that would have figured  the rest of the meaning as per human nature. I will lay it out.   It is a matter of time before one of the little ones get stung,. even if a bee does not sting in aggression, one could be accidentally mashed. It does not even have to be a bee that does the stinging. Especially if the parents are a little nervous about the bees. A wasp could do the stinging and guess what may possibly be blamed? Yes the bee. We as beekeepers do have a moral obligation to be good beekeepers as well as striving to be good neighbors. Is this reasonable? Hopefully I am helping beesonhay avoid unseen, unpleasant relations with his neighbor in the future. I am striving to be a peacemaker between the two. If we can see potential trouble coming on the horozian shouldn't we be as watchmen on the wall and sound the alarm?  If the answer is yes, what does my age have to do with that?  Thinking about it, may I ask, how old are you? lol
Phillip

 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 01:15:28 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2020, 05:19:01 pm »
All is good, Ben.
I was just asking to...
1. Agree that 4 feet seemed a little close, or
2. Congratulate you on expecting a child
Just asking a question. No offense intended. ✔️☺️
I am 53, with 4 kids and 1 grandchild on the way.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2020, 06:47:07 pm »
Thanks Bob,  We agree that four feet is a little close pushing the narrative with one's neighbor for obvious reasons, especially with ones neighbors children directly involved and in the balance. Are we not flirting with possible trouble with our good neighbor by doing so? There is something about our children that tend to make humans protective, and rightfully so. With us, we enjoy the love and the gift of bees and children.
Just for an open minded point of view, Let's look at it in another way. What if, a new neighbor were to move in on the other side and place a pitbull dog within 4 feet of our kids play area.  Now I am adding food for thought, a view of things in a different light. We as beekeepers should always be reasonable and considerate in all circumstances.  If trouble with a neighbor can easily be headed off so much the better? But, as far as we know beesonhay neighbor might have placed the play area within four feet of the bees and like bees as much as we do? Just food for thought. I hope that helps.
Blessings,
Phillip

PS Congratulations on your wonderful family and your expected grandchild!!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 07:00:44 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline incognito

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Re: What is too close?
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2020, 02:46:52 pm »
..
Tom