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Author Topic: Becoming Treatment Free  (Read 1794 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Becoming Treatment Free
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2020, 09:35:09 am »
Within the  treatment free, chemical free beekeeping  community, there is some disagreement about what constitutes "treatment " .. a point of contention is whether feeding sugar syrup is a treatment,  another disagreement is whether making splits outside of swarm season is an artificial brood break and should be considered a treatment. Some people think that mechanical aids like beetle traps are not a treatment,  but most people agree that it is.
It is inherent among 10 beekeepers to have 9 different trains of thought.
The only thought that matters is yours.  Because that is how your bees will be treated.
If you got into beekeeping to prove that your ideas are right vs. someone else's then you are doomed.  Bees have a habit of proving what is right is wrong.
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Offline yes2matt

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Re: Becoming Treatment Free
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2020, 12:51:12 pm »
Absolutely. Keep bees, not a philosophy.

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Becoming Treatment Free
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2020, 06:16:19 pm »
>There are no Honey Bees native to NA.

Maybe.  But I don't think the question was ever actually definitively decided.  People just decided to assume they were not.


American Bee Journal June 1923 (Vol 63 No 6) starting on page 299

A Discourse Intended to Commemorate the Discovery of America by Christopher Columbus.
By Jeremy Belknap.
Delivered at the request of the Historical Society of Massachusetts on the 23rd of October, 1792

Dissertation No. 3, on the question whether the honeybee is a native of America.

Mr. Jefferson, in his notes on Virginia, has said that ?The honeybee is not a native of our continent. The Indians concur with us in the tradition that it was brought from Europe, but when and by whom we know not. The bees have generally extended themselves into the country, a little in advance of the white settlers. The Indians called them the white man?s fly; and consider their approach as indicating the approach of the settlement of the whites.? He allows that ?in Brazil there is a species of honeybee without a sting, but that is very different from the one we have, which perfectly resembles that of Europe.? The facts adduced by the respectable author are true; but they will not warrant his conclusion that ?the honeybee, meaning the one resembling that of Europe, is not a native of our continent.?

There is one circumstance in the history of Columbus which proves that bees were known in the islands of the West Indies, at the time of his discovery. When on his first return to Europe he was in danger of perishing at sea, he wrote an account of his discovery on parchment, which he inclosed in a cake of wax, and put into a tight cask, committing the whole to the sea, in hope of it?s being driven on shore or taken up. This was procured in the island of Hispaniola, which he had visited, and it was one of the first fruits of his discovery.

The indefatigable Purchas gives us an account of the revenues of the Empire of Mexico, before the arrival of the Spaniards, as described in its annals; which were pictures drawn on cotton cloth. Among other articles he exhibits the figures of covered pots with two handles, which are said to be pots of ?bees? honey.? Of these pots, two hundred are depicted in one tribute-roll, and one hundred in several others.

This account is confirmed by the late history of Mexico, written by the Abbe Clavigero, a native of Vera Cruz who from a residence of thirty-six years in Mexico, and a minute inquiry into the natural history and antiquities of his country must be supposed to be well informed, and competent to give a just account. He tells us that a part of every useful production of nature or art was paid in tribute to the kings of Mexico, and among other articles of revenue he reckons ?600 cups of honey? paid annually by the inhabitants of the southern part of the empire. He also says, ?that though they extracted a great quantity of wax from the honeycomb, they either did not know how or were not at pains to make lights of it.?

In his enumeration of the insects of Mexico, he reckons six different kinds of bees which make honey, four of which have no stings, and one of the other two which have stings, one ?agrees with the common bee of Europe, not only in size, shape and color, but also disposition and manners, and in qualities of its honey and wax.?
In the account given by Purchas, of the travels of Ferdinado de Soto, in Florida, it is observed that when he came to Chiaha, which by the description was one of the upper branches of the Mobile (now in the State of Georgia) he found among the provisions of the natives ?a pot full of honey of bees.? This was A.D. 1540, when there were no Europeans settled on the continent of America, but in Mexico and Peru.

From these authorities it is evident that honeybees were known in Mexico and the islands, before the arrival of the Europeans; and that they had extended as far northward as Florida, a country so denominated from the numberless flowers, which grow there in the wild luxuriance and afford a plenty of food for this useful tribe of insects. The inference is, that bees were not imported by the Spaniards; for however fond they might be of honey as an article of food, or of wax to make tapers for common use, or for the illumination of their churches, yet as bees were known to be in the country there could be no need of importing them. The report of honey and wax being found in the islands, in Mexico, and in Florida, had reached Europe and had been published there long before any emigrations were made to the northward; therefore, if these had been considered as articles of subsistence or of commerce, the sanguine spirit of the first adventurers would have rather led them to think of finding them in America, than of transporting bees from Europe to make them.

As to the circumstance of the bees ?extending themselves a little in advance of white settlers,? it cannot be considered as a conclusive argument in favor or their having been first brought from Europe. It is well known that where land is cultivated bees find a greater plenty of food than in the forest. The blossoms of fruit trees, of grasses and grain, particularly clover and buckwheat, afford them a rich and plentiful repast, and they are seen in vast numbers in our fields and orchards at the season of those blossoms. They therefore delight in the neighborhood of ?the white settlers?, and are able to increase in numbers, as well as to augment their quantity of stores, by availing themselves of the labors of man. May it not be from this circumstance that the Indians have given them the name of ?the white man?s fly?; and that they ?consider their approach (or frequent appearance) as indicating the approach of the settlement of the whites??
The first European settlement in Virginia was made about seventy years after the expedition of De Soto, in Florida, and the first settlement in New England was ten years posterior to that of Virginia. The large intermediate country was uncultivated for a long time afterward. The southern bees, therefore, could have no inducement to extend themselves very far into the northward for many years after the settlements were begun, and within that time bees were imported from Europe.
That honey and wax were not known to the Indians of New England is evident from this, that they had no words in their language for them. When Mr. Eliot translated the Bible into the Indian language, wherever these terms occurred he used the English words, though sometimes with Indian termination.

Joffelyn, who visited New England first in 1638, and afterward in 1663, and wrote an account of his voyage with some sketches of natural history in 1673, speaks of the honeybee in these words: ?the honeybees are carried over by the English, and thrive there exceedingly.?
There is a tradition in New England that the person who first brought a hive of bees into the country was rewarded with a grant of land; but the person?s name, or the place where the land lay or by whom the grant was made, I have not been able to learn.

It appears then that the honeybee is a native of America, and that its productions were found by the first European visitors as far northward as Florida and Georgia. It is also true that bees were imported from Europe into New England, and probably into Virginia; but whether if this importation had not taken place, the bees of the southern parts would not have extended themselves northerly, or whether those which we now have are not a mixture of native and imported bees, cannot be determined. It is however certain that they have multiplied exceedingly, and that they are frequently found in New England, in a wild state, in the trunks of hollow trees, as far northward as cultivation and settlements have extended, which is nearly to the 45th degree of latitude.
I have made an inquiry of several persons from Canada, but have not learned that bees were known during their residence in that country. It is, however, not improbable that as cultivation extends, the bees may find their way to the northward of the lakes and rivers of Canada, even though none should be transported thither by the inhabitants.

Still American Bee Journal June 1923 (Vol 63 No 6) page 300
Was there a Native Honey-Bee?
By Frank C. Pellett.

We are indebted to our good friend Harold L. Kelly of Washing D.C. for the above article  written by Mr. Belknap in 1792.  Mr. Kelly  found this among some old writings on bees in the Library of Congress.  Written, as it was, so long ago, it is of much historical interest, although not altogether convincing to one who is familiar with the bees of the tropics.

The first statement  to the effect that Columbus enclosed an account of his discovery of a cake of wax is not conclusive for the reason that the wax could easily have been obtained from the stingless bees.

The Mexican bees are said to be of six different kinds, of which four have no stings and the other two have stings.  The stingless bees, of course, could not be mistaken for the honey-bee.  One of the stinging kind was very probably the honey-making wasp, which was described by the writer in this Journal in January, 1921.

Since the description which was supposed to refer to the honey-bee was written long after the Spaniards had settled in Mexico it does not follow that it was a native species to which the writer referred.

The reference to the ?pot full of honie of bees? found in what is now Georgia is more convincing, but even this might easily refer to the product of the bumblebee, which produces a small amount of honey.  The natives were often attracted by food in small quantity and travelers finding them eating honey might mention the fact without calling attention to the source.

The fact that the honeybee extended its range so rapidly and in advance of settlement indicates that it was an introduced species.  This is not absolute, however, since a change in conditions often affects the spread of a native species.  The breaking up of the prairies caused the Colorado potato beetle, a native insect, to change its food plant from buffalo burr to the potato, and then to spread all over the continent.  This change however, came with the advance of settlement and not ahead of it.  It is possible, of course, that there was a native honey-bee confined to a limited area which remained in its original habitat and that it was the European species which did in fact spread over the country following its introduction.

There is a persistent opinion that the honeybee was native to America although no proof of the fact has yet been brought forward.  We are much interested in establishing the fact or definitely proving to the contrary and appreciate such information as the above which Mr. Kelly has found.  Through his kindness we are able also to republish, for our readers, notes concerning bees in Mexico to which Mr. Belknap refers.

Still American Bee Journal June 1923 (Vol 63 No 6) page 301
By Abbe D. Francesco Saverio Clavigero (1731-1787)
Translated from the original Italian in 1806 by Chas Cullen, Esq.
Excerpt from Book 1, of Volume 1.

There are at least six different kinds of bees. The first is the same as the common bee of Europe, with which it agrees, not only in size, shape and color, but also in its disposition and manners, and in the qualities of its honey and wax.

The second species which differs from the first only in having no sting, is the bee of Yucatan and Chiapa, which makes the fine, clear honey of Estabentun, of an aromatic flavor, superior to that of all other kinds of honey with which we are acquainted. The honey is taken from them six times a year, that is once in every other month; but the best is that which is got in November, being made from a white flower like Jessamine, which blooms in September, called in that country Estabentun, from which the honey has derived its name. The honey of Estabentun is in high estimation with the English and French, who touch at the ports of Yucatan; and I have known the French of Buarico to buy it sometimes for the purpose of sending it as a present to the king.

The third species resembles in its form, the winged ants, but is smaller than the common bee, and without a sting. This insect, which is peculiar to warm and temperate climates, forms nests, in size and shape resembling sugar loaves, and even sometimes greatly exceeding these in size, from trees, and particularly from the oak. The populousness of these hives is much greater than those of the common bee. The nymphs of this bee, which are eatable, are white and round, like a pearl. The honey is of a grayish color, but of a fine flavor.

The fourth species is a yellow bee, smaller than the common one, but like it, furnished with a sting. Its honey is not equal to those already mentioned.
The fifth is a small bee furnished with a sting which constructs its hives of an orbicular form. In subterranean cavities; and the honey is sour and somewhat bitter.
The Tlalpiprolli, which is the sixth species, is black and yellow of the size of the common bee, but has no sting.

The Xicotli or Xicote, is a thick black wasp, with a yellow belly, which makes a very sweet honey, in holes made by it in walls. It is provided with a strong sting, which gives a very painful wound. The cuicalmiahautl has likewise a sting, but whether it makes honey or not, we do not know.

My notes, not the ABJ article:

That same edition of ABJ has an article by Frank Pellet asking for any references that could clarify the issue of native American honey bees.

Vikings were here around 1000 a.d.  If there were no honeybees here at the time, I have no doubt they would have brought them.  Vikings without mead are no Vikings at all...  The Chinese could have brought them in 1421.  No doubt the Spanish brought them sometime after 1500 or so, perhaps as late as the 1600s.  But the manifest that is often quoted says they arrived in Virginia in 1622. 

I'm Lakota and one of our words for bee is "wichayazipa". Beeswax is "wichayazipa wigli" which means literally "bees fat". Bumble bee is Wichayazipa hinsma. Honey bee is "wichayazipa thunkce". That is as opposed to words like "wichayazipa zi" (yellow jacket) and "chanhanpi" (sugar).

I ask people from other tribes all the time, and have always gotten similar results. They have words for bees, honey and beeswax that are not made up words like the words for monkey or cow or horse. For instance the word for monkey translates "dog man" (shunka wicasa) and horse is "great dog" (shunkawakan) and cow is "female meat" (pte win) while the word for a buffalo cow changed from "female meat" to "real female meat" (pte winyelo). These European things have made up names.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Becoming Treatment Free
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2020, 11:32:38 pm »
Excellent Post Mr Bush. Thank you for taking the time and sharing this interesting information.
Phillip Hall
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Becoming Treatment Free
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2020, 09:10:04 am »
Interesting. Thanks.