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Author Topic: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.  (Read 486 times)

Online sawdstmakr

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Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« on: December 10, 2019, 03:28:19 pm »
I have always had a leak problem with my John Deere 2355. I had all of the Hydralic cylinders rebuilt. Since then they have leaked on and off.
I started using Hydra Guard recently and most of the leaks stopped.
Last week I drove the tractor around to a new section of property that I just bought and started bush hogging to put up fence. A steering nut fell off and I had to leave it there in the woods. Yesterday I was able to repair it and completed about an hour of bush hogging with no trouble. Today I went to drive back over there and hydraulic fluid starts flowing out of the left lift cylinder. I looked funny so I took a sample. See the picture below:

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That looks like it is full of water. Any experts out there that can verify.
It wasn?t leaking when I brought it home yesterday and it was not leaking until I lifted the loader up a few minutes ago. I also lifted a 1000 pound hay role last night and it has been in the barn since then. I checked and the hydraulic fill cap is on and tight.
I can?t imagine Diesel fuel getting in there and I do not think it would look like this.
Looking for answers.
Jim Altmiller

Offline iddee

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2019, 04:49:54 pm »
It looks too white to be water. It looks more like air to me. May be just where it spewed from a small crack. Do you have a dipstick or a place you could get some out while not under pressure. See if it is still white then.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2019, 04:51:05 pm »
My experience is that water will make it white.  But it usually also makes it somewhat "curdled" in appearance.  I can't tell if your's is, but it doesn't look like it.  I don't have any other theories though.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2019, 06:22:12 pm »
Today I went to drive back over there and hydraulic fluid starts flowing out of the left lift cylinder.

Packing gone or seal?  That would be where water could get in.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2019, 01:44:49 am »
My experience is that water will make it white.  But it usually also makes it somewhat "curdled" in appearance.  I can't tell if your's is, but it doesn't look like it.  I don't have any other theories though.

This has been my experience also. ''water will make it white, But it usually also makes it somewhat "curdled"

Jim usually if water gets in it is usually through the fill cap area and you checked that.  Sometimes oil and water can emulsify if mixed  enough giving a uniform color and texture.  Such as making homemade honey-bee-healthy, the essential oils and water must be placed in a blender and ran for 5 full minutes to emulsify.  Could the same thing have happened with the hydraulic pump doing the mixing? As iddee said looks like it may also have air.

Let me ask you about the additive, will it make the color difference? I have never used the stuff.  I do not see any way that diesel could have gotten into the hydraulic reservoir.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 01:04:30 am by Ben Framed »

Offline Acebird

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2019, 08:33:09 am »
So why is the cylinder leaking all of a sudden?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline iddee

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2019, 08:42:10 am »
I don't know what kind of oil you guys have been using, but in 15 to 20 tractors I have changed the oil in for the last 20 years or so, the water in Hyd. oil looked more like muddy water than white. The only white Hyd. oil I have seen is where it is spewed under pressure and looks like white foam. Then when the larger bubbles burst, it looks like milk.
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Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2019, 09:13:32 am »
Thanks all for the replies.
I drained most of the oil. It was low but it still was powering the power steering, always the first to go, and lift the front end.
It has been sitting all night, I will check to see if it separated as soon as I get out to the barn.
When I lifted the loader up and down it would pour out and I could see bubbles.
It also looks way too thin.
I will update this as soon as I have more info.
I have a controlled burn class that I have to go to in a few minutes.
Thanks,
Jim

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2019, 09:22:29 am »
I don't know what kind of oil you guys have been using, but in 15 to 20 tractors I have changed the oil in for the last 20 years or so, the water in Hyd. oil looked more like muddy water than white. The only white Hyd. oil I have seen is where it is spewed under pressure and looks like white foam. Then when the larger bubbles burst, it looks like milk.

Good point Iddee. When I first got out of school I worked for a company that carried Clark front end loaders and husky log loaders, the shop guys used regular 30 weight non detergent oil bought in 55 gallon drums for hydraulic oil. Much cheaper.

Offline Nock

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2019, 06:09:32 pm »
Could be cavitation. 

Offline iddee

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2019, 08:50:53 pm »
""It has been sitting all night, I will check to see if it separated as soon as I get out to the barn. I will update this as soon as I have more info.""

Dang, it's taking Jim a long time to get out to the barn.
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Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2019, 12:45:50 am »
Sorry guys. I have been busy. I did check on the sample this morning as I walked through the barn. It has not changed. I was really expecting to see the oil and water or bubbles separating. I still need to get a 29 mm socket to open the lower drain plug.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2019, 01:02:05 am »
Sorry guys. I have been busy. I did check on the sample this morning as I walked through the barn. It has not changed. I was really expecting to see the oil and water or bubbles separating. I still need to get a 29 mm socket to open the lower drain plug.
Jim Altmiller

Jim if it did emulsify it will not seperate. Same as when mixing essential oil and water with a blender such as in the case of generic honey bee healthy.

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2019, 01:12:04 am »
I really suspect the problem is that I mixed different hydraulic fluids together and this is what happened. About 2 weeks ago I added more hydraulic fluid. The small leaks that I had before adding fluid, stopped leaking.
About a week ago, when I started this tractor up, the seals on this cylinder were on a dirty section right at the fully inserted point. It started leaking clean hydraulic fluids really bad. I extended the cylinder/lifted the loader and it stopped. We cleaned the center shaft and I did not have any problems with it leaking that day.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2019, 01:13:59 am »
In this case little oil, more water, not so milky but uniform and semi-transparent. (Brood Builder)
In your case more oil less water, thus much more milky in appearance yet still uniform and no transparency.
I would suggest changing the oil and filter. Keep the machine under a shed, and or find the source of the foreign liquid and stop it.

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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2019, 01:15:22 am »
I really suspect the problem is that I mixed different hydraulic fluids together and this is what happened. For some reason it suddenly changed.
About a week ago, when I started this tractor up, the seals on this cylinder were on a dirty section right at the fully inserted point. It started leaking clean hydraulic fluid. I extended the cylinder/lifted the loader and it stopped. We cleaned the center shaft and I did not have any problems with it leaking that day.
Jim Altmiller

That could very well be it Jim, good luck and let us know the answer to this mystery.
Phillip

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2019, 01:18:59 am »
one quick question, did you check the oil level? If so was the oil level right where it should have been or have you noticed you have (gained oil) ? on the other hand with if leaking you probably would not be able to tell . so much for that.  :grin:

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2019, 01:20:47 am »
Ben,
I have already changed out the filter and I have removed over 5 gallons of fluid. I still need to get another drain plug loose before I can get the rest out.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2019, 01:25:39 am »
Ben,
I have already changed out the filter and I have removed over 5 gallons of fluid. I still need to get another drain plug loose before I can get the rest out.
Jim Altmiller

Yea, to get it right all fluid that is possible to drain needs to be removed. I would suggest replacing the filter once more before restarting after the new oil is replaced. They also have suction systems that will remove all fluids, Might try harbor freight for a one time go at it. Or better if you have a friend that has one of these.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Looking for a little Hydralics help here.
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2019, 01:29:26 am »
Wishing you the best Jim. For your sake I hope it is not water but as you suspect mixed hydraulic fluids. Please be sure before operation much further until the mystery is solved. You do not want to scorch the walls of your hydraulic pump. It is probably ok. Just check it out real good, maybe you can take the sample to a farm dealership, it does not have to be deer. Talk to the service manager and perhaps he can tell you more accurately what is what?