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Author Topic: The 15 ?  (Read 1133 times)

Online Ben Framed

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The 15 ?
« on: December 01, 2019, 09:20:51 pm »
This fellow gives some reasons why the 15 is so popular for hunting, shooting , and self defense. He is from California. I know very little about these and can honestly say that I have never shot one.  This video says that the 15 will shoot a 223 remington along with the 556 mm nato round. But as incognito  pointed out below, that is not the case unless stamped on the barrel. So I have edited to add incognitos  warning. Thanks Tom

(WARNING: CHECK THE BARREL MARKINGS! A 556 can use 223 also but not the other way around.
I felt compelled to clarify that.)  Per incognito

« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 03:44:45 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline incognito

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2019, 10:48:43 pm »
I also did not know that this type will shoot a 223 remington along with the 556 mm nato round.

WARNING: CHECK THE BARREL MARKINGS! A 556 can use 223 also but not the other way around.
I felt compelled to clarify that.
Tom

Online Ben Framed

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 03:25:27 am »
Yes you are correct. This fellow explains the difference. I am glad you caught this Tom.

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline jvalentour

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2019, 09:00:10 pm »
I can honestly say, I have never heard an AR-15 referred to as "The 15".
I disagree that the AR-15 is a home defense weapon.  The round will go thru the bad guy, your wall, and your neighbors wall.
The AR-15 was designed to maim first kill later. 

Offline incognito

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2019, 10:08:21 pm »
There are arguably better defensive weapons for inside the home.
It is better suited for guarding the perimeter or deterring guys coming up the driveway.

The Federal government once considered them for personal defense.
But note how they avoid the sensationalized media description.

https://beta.sam.gov/opp/09f78d7e84c745853607ecc571c0003c/view
Notice ID  H92222-17-RFI-DW 
Department/Ind. Agency  DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 
Sub-tier  US SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND (USSOCOM)
Office USSOCOM REGIONAL CONTRACTING OFFICE

Description Personal Defense Weapon System

Sources Sought The United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) is seeking to identify potential sources within the national technology and industrial base with the ability to provide a conversion kit for the M4A1 to create a Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) system:-Complete Kit to include upper receiver and butt stock kit
-Any tools required to complete an operational conversion
-A light and sound reducing suppressor that can be attached to the system when needed
PDW Kit specifics: The kit must be adaptable to the standard M4A1 lower receiver, any modification to the lower receiver must be reversible and nonpermanent. The kit must be in .300 Blackout (BLK) cartridge, total system weight, including the M4A1 lower in not to exceed 5.5lbs. Length with stock extended not to extend 26" length with stock collapsed or folded shall be 17" (T), 15" (O) and a height not to exceed 7.5". Weapon shall be fully functional when collapsed or folded. Kit should include a 5.56mm barrel that can be changed from .300 BLK to 5.56mm in less than 3 minutes. Accuracy shall be 3.0 MOA (T), 2.0 MOA (O) @100 yds. and 5.0 MOA (T), 3.0 MOA (O) @ 300 yds. both in .300 BLK supersonic.
Tom

Offline jvalentour

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2019, 10:26:27 pm »
Incog,
You're not wrong, but that 556 or 223 or 300 still goes thru the bad guy, your wall, and your neighbors wall.  And the bad guy may not know he has been hit (except for the 300, maybe).  The proposed handgun version of a 556 will penetrate body armor, leading to the banning of the round because it becomes a handgun round in the US.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2019, 10:57:57 pm »
Ar-15 ... "best ground squirrel rifle ever". Don't believe it? Try the alfalfa fields of Nevada - you can shoot further with other rounds/rifles, but nothing matches distance/capacity/durability combination of the AR on the disease-infested ground squirrels - imho. ... best real-life video game ever. Bring several AR's w/ high power scopes. When they begin to heat up (overheating once: ruins accuracy permanently on most models), open the action, drop the mag, and place on fence post (thru the mag well) like a "wind vein" to allow barrel cooling. Grab the next [cool] one, and continue. ... and bring lots of ammo ...  :cool:

AR for home defense? ... not so much imo ... I'll take a scatter gun - #8 or #9.5 shot, cut the walls above the powder, and below the shot (almost in half). ... shot cup exits as a slug, opens on impact, won't kill a baby sleeping in the next room ... 1 persons opinion ...

AR for war-time? ... let's not go there ... I Hope and Pray.
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Offline incognito

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2019, 12:43:15 am »
The proposed handgun version.....
What handgun version are you referring to?
Personal Defense Weapon System = "Assault Rifle"
Tom

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2019, 08:24:45 am »
The AR-15 is a useful self defense weapon under some conditions.  In my experience in a house you have more than one issue.  You have the issue of going through walls.  You have the issue of someone grabbing the barrel.  Home defense is usually face to face, not at any range.  A pistol is harder for someone to grab and take away from you.  My personal opinion on what is the most useful self defense weapon is a double action revolver.  It is always in one of two conditions.  Loaded or unloaded.  A semi auto pistol could be in six different conditions and unless you are disciplined enough to always store it in the same condition, you have to think about what you are doing.  Most self defense situations happen in the middle of the night when you are groggy from sleep.  You have enough to worry about just deciding if you need to or don't need to shoot someone without having to think about the state of the gun.  If you buy something like Gazer safety slugs they shouldn't penetrate walls though I would still not count on it.  I would try to always be in a position that i don't have anyone on the other side of the target.  I think anything more than a .357 is more recoil than most people can easily handle.  Anything less than a .357 is marginal for stopping power.  So That would be my choice.  If that recoil is too hard to handle for someone, then you can always shoot .38s in it.  For handy you can get a five shot snub nose.  You can also get as much as an eight shot revolver.  Of course I think you should be able to buy whatever you prefer...
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Offline incognito

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2019, 10:21:07 am »
Good points Michael.
The debate over the best home defense system will never end. One size does not fit all.

Proficiency using your system is the most important factor.
Tom

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 11:51:38 am »
As far as varmits, an AR-15 is not a bad choice.  You can buy cheap ammo and it's fun to shoot.  But I can hit those same varmits at a half a mile with a .25-06 and I can't with the .223.  At least not at all on a windy day and not well on a calm day.  I think every law abiding American should be able to buy an AR-15.  I don't own one because I don't have any use for one nor any desire for one.  The only .223 I own is a single shot pistol...
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Offline incognito

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 01:43:40 pm »
I hunt deer with a compound bow and a slug shotgun.
Everything else I own is for punching paper at the range.
The AR-15 with the buffer tube has low recoil for a center fired round. Less pain, more fun. Nothing evil.


Tom

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2019, 01:56:47 pm »
> Less pain, more fun. Nothing evil.


I can understand that.  It's fun to shoot something that isn't painful but it's also fun to shoot something with some recoil.  I really enjoy putting bullets in the same hole.
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Offline incognito

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2019, 09:59:57 pm »
You want recoil, how about firing a Mosin-Nagant with a metal butt plate wearing only tee shirt?That will make you feel recoil.

Tom

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2019, 08:36:50 am »
>That will make you feel recoil.

I like a push.  I don't like pain.
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Offline jvalentour

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2019, 09:59:39 am »

Posted by: incognito
? on: December 10, 2019, 09:59:57 pm ?
    Insert Quote
You want recoil, how about firing a Mosin-Nagant with a metal butt plate


I have felt your pain.  Took me a few too many shots to figure it out though.  They sell a nice rubber pad to replace the butt plate. 

Offline incognito

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2019, 11:07:01 am »
I have felt your pain.  Took me a few too many shots to figure it out though.  They sell a nice rubber pad to replace the butt plate.
I have a slip on Limbsaver butt pad. It works great.
Tom

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2019, 11:27:53 am »
>I have a slip on Limbsaver butt pad. It works great.

I have one of those and I also have recoil pads on most of my guns.  I like the Limbsavers the best of any I've had.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2019, 01:05:36 pm »
To this day, every conversation about recoil makes me laugh.  I picture the day my little sister insisted she was big enough to fire the 12 gauge.  She wasn't.   :cheesy:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Offline CoolBees

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Re: The 15 ?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2019, 01:32:43 pm »
You want recoil, how about firing a Mosin-Nagant with a metal butt plate wearing only tee shirt?That will make you feel recoil.

... and after a few shots, you'll be able to clap - with your shoulder blades.  :cool:

Those Mosin's definitely raised the bar of recoil.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln