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Author Topic: Scientific study comparing effects on honeybees of: Oxalic acid and Formic acid.  (Read 110 times)

Offline van from Arkansas

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  • Van from Arkansas.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21442305-evaluation-of-spring-organic-treatments-against-varroa-destructor-acari-varroidae-in-honey-bee-apis-mellifera-hymenoptera-apidae-colonies-in-eastern-canada/

The above linked article compares two organic acids for treatment of Varroa and subsequent effects of the acids on honey bees.  I will summarize for your convenience.

In brief Oxalic acid was well tolerated by honey bees in contrast to Formic acid which killed several queens, lowered bee population levels which lead to decrease honey yields.  Both acids were effective against Varroa destructor.

I am providing the link to the data and my summary for your consideration.  I make no suggestions.

Cheers
Van
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Online Ben Framed

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Good post Mr Van, no doubt that formic can, will, and does kill queens. I have no experience in using it. However, I have been of late struggling to educate myself in the (art) and yes I said (art) of using this organic acid. I have started topics here asking questions, as well as commenting on other topics related on this subject. I have asked many question and received many conflicting answers.  And not only questions here at beemaster, but to beekeepers from all over the world through other means. Let me clarify that beemaster is the only forum that I am a member of, but the world is large and round. Youtube is an excellent alternate source of information concerning honey bees. Not only watching the videos, to see and hear what is being done and said, but also I have found that the comment section below the videos to be a wealth and treasure chest of information. It seems the video makers are eager to help answer most questions on that platform regardless of country of origin. I have found that keepers from all over the world experiment and use formic. Again some are very successful users as some not so much. I have found that many opinions, from folks first hand experience using fromic  to vary from person to person, keeper to keeper, and sometimes country to country. Germany, I have found by talking to keepers there, is really big and successful in using formic, as well as scientific in the use of formic. Without putting the stuff to the test myself, I can in no wise promote the use of it, nor will I.  However on the other hand I cannot deny or dismiss the benefits of formic as presented by many many successful users. This is where the word art comes into play, or really art is only one description, science should be the stronger term used. Because to use formic successfully, from all I have gathered is an artful-science. The conclusion that I have reached is an ongoing study, Which is really not a conclusion at all but an ongoing education of this product. I have reached a certain point that I would not be afraid to try, at least the flash method IF I was at the point that a hive was showing sure sign of decline or collapse regardless of how diligently I had treated with OAV.  What would I have to lose if the hive is dying anyway? And as we who have studied such things, and still are studying such things,  know that even OAV diligent users sometimes lose the battle.  I have tried to convey an unbiased opinion until I can say that I have reached a concrete conclusion. Maybe this helps? Lets keep plugging at the pest of bees and learning together.
Phillip Hall
« Last Edit: Today at 02:56:14 am by Ben Framed »

Offline sawdstmakr

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Thanks for posting that Van.
Jim Altmiller

Online Ben Framed

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Thanks for posting that Van.
Jim Altmiller

For sure, thanks Mr Van. I did notice that the date of this study was Sept. 2011. Mr Oliver studies are more modern, So is the studies form the University of Maryland on the formic subject. Strides have been made since the 2011 study. Even so I do not at the present time, see folks using formic successfully. It seems that to much science and education is involved and folks are not ready for this. Perhaps the makers of MAQS and others have tried to reduce the variables of these obstacles in their products, combining both science and art. Even still folks are giving mixed reports on the success of these as per Mr Live Oak for one example. I have stated my last opinion on what I have found about the use of this subject for sometime to come until I have personally used and experienced the stuff myself. And that day may never come either. :grin:
« Last Edit: Today at 09:05:42 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline sawdstmakr

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Ben,
I bought Miteaway II, Formica acid, when I first started beekeeping. After reading the directions, I knew that you have a very narrow temperature range to use it.  Here in Florida that range is very narrow a with our changing weather very dangerous.
I did a test on one empty hive and in 3 days it burned holes in my screen top board and in screen bottom bottom board.
I never used it. I tried giving it away many times but nobody ever wanted it.
Jim Altmiller

Offline CoolBees

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Thanks for posting this article Van. It is a reassurance that (for now) I have chosen the correct path with OAV.

With that said: I [personally] firmly believe that the final and ultimate solution to the Mite problem - rests with the bees themselves. The promotion of "hygienic traited" bees/queens is the only viable long-term solution. Not that anyone here would disagree with me.  :grin:

So ... [in my small experimental operation] I continue to use OAV, and monitor mite loads year-round, splitting from queens that show promise and replacing ones that don't.

Reinforcement is always good - thanks!
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Online Ben Framed

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Ben,
I bought Miteaway II, Formica acid, when I first started beekeeping. After reading the directions, I knew that you have a very narrow temperature range to use it.  Here in Florida that range is very narrow a with our changing weather very dangerous.
I did a test on one empty hive and in 3 days it burned holes in my screen top board and in screen bottom bottom board.
I never used it. I tried giving it away many times but nobody ever wanted it.
Jim Altmiller

Thanks for the information Jim. Did you chart the Temperature closely for these three days? If so what was the beginning temperature , miid-day temperature, nightly temperature for these 3 days. Thanks for your input as this may help me in this study.
Phillip