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Author Topic: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?  (Read 500 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2019, 01:13:52 am »
Thanks Mr Van, I thought the same thing. He says it is shop towels. One article says (Randy used Scott Shop Towels). After looking at the picture, I was wondering if he meant the red cotton type shop towels as sold in harbor freight and any other shop supplier. But I went back and looked again at the article and it did say,( Randy used Scott Shop Towels) The dog I have in this hunt is the welfare of my bees and the responsibility that I assumed when I took them from the wild and placed them in an artificial surrounding. It was hard and hot work removing the first bees form a two story house that was beneath the siding, several feet from the ground.  The entire area of the bees location had to be removed, and replaced siding and boards without obvious tampering to look upon. Up and down a ladder all day in the wide open hot sun. All this done on a ladder with no help. The bees deserve every honest chance to prosper under my care. I try to help them and at the same time as natural as possible. From that hive, spring before last, are now right at 30 hives. Let me add, that I might not have a single hive survive that first winter had it not been for Mr Live Oaks advice last fall, helping me get the bees through winter with his good advice of how to open feed pollen, his advice along with David at barnyard bees and a couple more in our similar latitude. I am very grateful to you Mr Live Oak. I am however very puzzled as you can probably imagine. 

Allow me to share something with you. Kamon Reynolds recently did a video series featuring an experimental colony, which had had 94 mites in an alcohol wash per 300 bees. He did five Oxalic vapor treatments in a row, even still he was getting thirty two mites per three hundred mite wash. It took three added rounds making a total of EIGHT OAV treatments, along with apivar to finally reach zero mite count. He said the colony has dwindled and still has signs of multiple viruses. He and Ian Steppler discussed this in the comment section of one of his videos. A couple reasons that Kamon gave for doing the series was that his "main goal was to show that OAV isn't quite as effective as many think it is with brood present in the hive. Also, to show that mites are to be taken seriously."  Now Kamon was using OAV just like you, I and others here use. Now we all know how easily the mites can get out of hand when brood is present. The trick is to make sure we are on top of it all the time and not let the mites ever get out of hand?  Just another plus with the Glycerin-Oxalic saturated shop towel method, if the results are as successful as Mr Oliver has claimed. Let me iterate, I am not disputing Mr Live Oaks claims but I am now TOTALLY puzzled.

Last season, beeboy 01, here at beemaster did a series right here of a similar problem hive. With similar results. I am happy to tell you that beeboy01 told me that the hive did survive, but it was a fight. With the results shown by Mr Oliver why would I not have been excited at such promising results as he has shown, Via the Glycerin-Oxalic saturated shop towel method? Look what Mr Oliver claims to have accomplished with the shop towel method. Outstanding results! Look at his chart in post 2. I would have hoped that Mr Oliver was accurate with his findings, and still do have (some) hope. Now I honestly do not know what to think.

I am hoping that there is some sort of decrefency somewhere for the good of all. Perhaps a missed something. Even our new member concurred that he has used this method and has found only one mite in fifteen hives. And he posted that before I posted the chart showing similar results by Mr Oliver. It is rare that we have such conflicting opinions here but the mite situation seems to be one of them.   

I am not trying to twist anyones thinking but I am trying to sort this out. Scratching my head.  :grin: I am more confused now than when I first asked the beginning question.  :grin: :grin: :grin: I suppose the only satisfaction that I might now get is to try this myself, by taking the bull by the horn next season, I hate to lose a hive to anything, SHB or MItes. So most likely I will set aside three or more hives and treat only with the shop towel method, if it is legal here and I see no reason why it would not be, Oxalic is Oxalic whichever form it may be in? While treating the rest the hives the old fashion way OAV.  :shocked: Wish me luck!
Blessings to all,
Phillip
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 02:39:39 am by Ben Framed »

Offline beesonhay465

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2019, 10:43:12 am »
my earlier post about the shop towel oxalic acid treatment i only treated 2 times. the supposed advantage of this method is that it is working for 1 month and the bees are constantly  exposed to to the treatment . as compared to oav which is a quick kill and does not kill mites that are already in capped cells. i will say that i have never done a mite count and dont have any way to tell if it is effective or not. however the hive is still alive.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2019, 11:43:49 am »
my earlier post about the shop towel oxalic acid treatment i only treated 2 times. the supposed advantage of this method is that it is working for 1 month and the bees are constantly  exposed to to the treatment . as compared to oav which is a quick kill and does not kill mites that are already in capped cells. i will say that i have never done a mite count and don't have any way to tell if it is effective or not. however the hive is still alive.

Yes that is the way I understand it also, a constant exposure to oxalic treatment. Meaning even though mites may be inside the capped brood at the time of treatment, the mites will become exposed when they emerge, (unlike OAV), (vapor), therefore ensuring they will be destroyed before they can breed and once again zero in on uncapped brood, breaking the cycle. This way we still have the advantage of OAV and therefore no harm to our bees as reported via fromic.
Let me ask, did your treated towels look like the one in the picture provided by Mr Oliver in post reply 18? Did you experience the bees chewing up your towels getting caught up in the towels and dieing, and propolized the remaining towels?  According to Mr Oliver the bees do not chew up these towels.  So that is a conflicting report and part of the reason I am scratching my head. lol .   Thank you beesonhay465 for your post.
Phillip   
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 06:49:06 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline incognito

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2019, 12:56:46 pm »
regarding resistance:
I plan on doing the dribble method this week. So I expect that some of the syrup/acid solution will fall to the bottom board and remain there indefinitely. Same as with the vapor method. Nothing the beekeeper does removes the acid crystals from every nook and cranny of the hive.
Does the acid in the syrup break down quickly or just get consumed by the bees?
Tom

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2019, 01:05:47 pm »
regarding resistance:
I plan on doing the dribble method this week. So I expect that some of the syrup/acid solution will fall to the bottom board and remain there indefinitely. Same as with the vapor method. Nothing the beekeeper does removes the acid crystals from every nook and cranny of the hive.
Does the acid in the syrup break down quickly or just get consumed by the bees?

I do not know Tom, I am learning as I go. I have not looked into the dribble method yet. What you say makes sense to me.
Phillip
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 01:19:22 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline minz

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2019, 04:14:34 pm »
Picture of Randies glycerin-oxalic coated shop towel. Does this look like the average shop towel strip?  :grin:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Yes I have tried it. But I used the proven cardboard method, not the paper towel method. If you read the articles you will see that the cardboard strips with OAG has been used effectively (the picture shown is not a shop towel). Randy is attempting to not have to go back into the hives to remove the cardboard but to develop a means of having the bees remove it for him. It is a labor savings.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/
A note here to the others that live in the wet areas not to keep in on in the wet, early spring. The other forum was really tracking this issue heavy and the thought was not to do this with poor, damp flying weather. Another Beek here in the area did it in spring with poor results.
Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2019, 05:31:22 pm »
Picture of Randies glycerin-oxalic coated shop towel. Does this look like the average shop towel strip?  :grin:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Yes I have tried it. But I used the proven cardboard method, not the paper towel method. If you read the articles you will see that the cardboard strips with OAG has been used effectively (the picture shown is not a shop towel). Randy is attempting to not have to go back into the hives to remove the cardboard but to develop a means of having the bees remove it for him. It is a labor savings.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/
A note here to the others that live in the wet areas not to keep in on in the wet, early spring. The other forum was really tracking this issue heavy and the thought was not to do this with poor, damp flying weather. Another Beek here in the area did it in spring with poor results.

Thanks minz, Until now I have not heard ot the coadboard update. I knew the picture did not look to be a standard shop towel. Though was described as such unless I missed it. I will look again. You seem very educated with Mr Olivers experiments. Since you have tried both this method and the formic flash method. Can I ask you which you prefer of the two?

Offline minz

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2019, 03:36:59 pm »
As for a choice between the three treatments mentioned I think each has its own application. Cardboard (or paper towel) prevents the mites from building. Formic is a major knock down. OAD gets the mites when they are broodless.
I do like his approach and his documentation. Love his website. I am not a production guy so I like to research and experiment. I am also very cheap. Spending $56 /pack of 10 formic pro when you need 20 is a bit steep.
I learned the flash treatment from a different source. I had not even realized Randy had to studied it until I could not find the link to the document. It is a very inexpensive method of knocking down mites after pulling honey in July. My first record of using it was July 28, 2015. I did not do it in 2018 since I ran out of formic and moved over the cardboard strips 6/2/2018. As for Oliver I also did half of my OAD in December with sugar water and half with glycerin (so much for the scientific method by changing two variables). I used some Formic Pro (picked up one 10 pack on sale) late in the year when a couple of my hives were up in numbers.
I did half of the hives with flash and half on the remaining Formic Pro (long treatment) this year (2019). My mite numbers were fine in July and I thought that I was going to get a pass and then in September my numbers were between 5-8 so I elected to treat. We will see how I winter before making a comment on that. It was real late in the year (started in Sep). A quick note is that a hive that I had pulled the queen to allow to requeen was up to 28 mites. With zero capped I elected formic pro. Very late in the year to be raising a queen.
Randy also has a very good excel spredsheet model. If you are looking to play with when to treat it is well worth a look.
Poor decisions make the best stories.

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2019, 06:25:35 pm »
With regards to earlier post; I looked at the Kamon Reynolds mite load video, the one with 60-70 mites per single wash from a queenless hive.  Mr. Reynolds utilizes a provap 110.  I do not know his grams of Oxalic acid per hive.  Protocol is one gram per 10 frame deep.

Some notes of interest:
By coincidence this day I treated with Oxalic acid vapor using provap 110 and 2 grams Oxalic acid per double deep.  Of choice interest is vapor escape variablity per hive.  Most hives were sealed well whereas some hives had air leaks between hive bodies allowing the acid vapors to escape the hive.  I place a foam pad on/in the entrance to exclude vapor lose.

Point is: some hives retained the Oxalic acid vapors with a high degree of confidence whereas a few hives the vapor escaped challenging the required dosage.  I can only compensate with multiple treatments per year, 2019 was 4 treatments with OAV.

Relative to Mr. Kamon Reynolds and multiple unsuccessful treatments with OAV, the hive in question, one would have to question vapor escape as a factor of such high mite load.

Regards
Van

« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 06:43:41 pm by van from Arkansas »
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline Ben Framed

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Thanks  minz and Van as well as all others who have posted here. So far I have only treated with OAV. So far I have not lost a hive to Varroa Destructor, nor do I wish to. I have ask these many questions, trying to get good honest opinions from different keepers.  I feel this has been accomplished.  I am also of the opinion we are all better off when we discuss such things and bring in different points of view sharing different experiences as well as results. This Has to be healthy and especially healthy if no one is offended and open minded to such discussion. Hopefully this been accomplished on this thread.  I have respect for each of you and your individual findings along with each response.
Many Thanks,
Phillip