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Author Topic: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?  (Read 511 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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This is the first depth of detail that I have seen on this? Is Anyone here familiar with this method of mite treatment?
Phillip


https://glorybee.com/blog/oxalic-shop-towel-mite-treatment-method/

Offline bgillham

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2019, 11:32:14 pm »
I?ve used them this season. I have checked half my hives(about 15) for mites and I have found 1 mite so far.


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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2019, 11:45:08 pm »
The following is a direct quote from ScientificBeekeeping.com  and the article is titled 
''A Test of Late-Summer Varroa Treatments''

Let me cover the results of the late and informal testing of the oxalic strips and essential oil pads first:
Oxalic/glycerin Strips
Although we ran no controls for this small informal test (and could thus not calculate efficacy), our results (Table 2) reflected the results of Maggi, who recorded efficacies of over 90% after 6 weeks of treatment. The strips are relatively simple to make and install (Fig. 12). However, even after several months, the bees had not chewed them out. This may have the advantage of extending the treatment (since they still had oxalic acid crystals on the surface), but raises a huge caution to beekeepers not destroy oxalic acid?s utility as a mite treatment by leaving them in the hive.

One of the newest weapons in our arsenal against varroa are oxalic/glycerin strips, which provide release of oxalic acid over an extended period of time.
Oxalic/glycerin strip test
Treated 1 Dec
Hive No.      Nov mite count      Dec mite count
39                25                        1
41                23                        0
52                40                        1
69                22                        1

Table 2. Results of testing oxalic/glycerin strips on 4 hives. Note that at this time of season, we would have expected mite counts to drop to some degree even without treatment. However, these results, as well of those of Maggi, are certainly encouraging!
Practical application and a cautionary warning: the oxalic/glycerin strips show great promise, and I will continue testing. The downside, however, is that some beekeepers will of course keep them in their hives continuously (especially since the bees do not remove the strips), which will apply a strong selective pressure on varroa to develop resistance mechanisms to acids. Beekeepers have a history of shooting themselves in the foot by overusing treatments without rotation, resulting in resistant mites and bacteria. If you use these strips, please do not leave them in your hives continuously, as you may then inadvertently be breeding mites resistant to acids, which could ruin it for the rest of us.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2019, 11:47:10 pm »
I?ve used them this season. I have checked half my hives(about 15) for mites and I have found 1 mite so far.


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Awesome!!!   Thanks bgillham the article looks promising and your voucher even more so validates!! Thanks for your response!!
Anyone else?

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 12:01:40 am »
Also Welcome to Beemaster bgillham Glad to have you join us!!
Phillip Hall

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 12:16:10 am »
Bgillham: welcome to Beemaster.  Your first post, very informative.  I hope you continue.

Randy,s trials look promising.  I am not sure about mite resistant to Oxalic acid, to many modes of action for this acid, so resistant is questionable.

Good post Mr. Phil, looks promising, very promising.
Blessings
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2019, 12:19:52 am »
Bgillham: welcome to Beemaster.  Your first post, very informative.  I hope you continue.

Randy,s trials look promising. 
Good post Mr. Phil, looks promising, very promising.
Blessings

''I am not sure about mite resistant to Oxalic acid, to many modes of action for this acid, so resistant is questionable.''

I agree with you 100 percent Mr Van. I also questioned this one part of the article about the resistance, I do not see a possible way of varroa becoming resistant to acid, the mite would have to mutate into growing a hard exoskeleton for protection of its now soft outer layer.  I do not see that happening. Otherwise, Yes Sir, it does look promising!
 :grin: :grin:
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 01:12:04 am by Ben Framed »

Offline beesonhay465

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2019, 01:32:13 am »
i have one hive .swarm moved in memorial weekend. treated for 8 weeks total starting aug 15 the bees removed 1/2 of the first towel and propolized the rest. all remanents of the first towel removed after 1 month and a new towel applied.no further treatment this year. its getting too cold to want to open the hive

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 01:34:55 am »
Thanks beesonhay465.  Congratulations on your swarm!

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 10:38:00 am »
the shop towels are intended for use to trap Hive beetles.  I have tried them, and they do indeed trap beetles...but...they also trap what is for me an unacceptable number of bees.

On Oxalic acid.  It is impossible for Varroa to become immune.

On its timing.  I wait till the days are cold such that the whole hive is in the box...and there is no brood underway so no capped brood cells.  I also do not like to open hive that time of year, so for maximal assurance I hit them 3 times, 2 weeks apart instead of pawing around in there checking for brood.  That should be a bit of an overkill, because if I get timing right and there is no brood (leaving literally nowhere for a mite to hide), and all the bees are in because of cold, that 1st shot should do the job.  I just don't trust that I am that good at timing...thus three shots over 6 weeks.  I haven't started for this winter yet, but may this weekend.

Barry

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2019, 10:45:04 am »
the shop towels are intended for use to trap Hive beetles.  I have tried them, and they do indeed trap beetles...but...they also trap what is for me an unacceptable number of bees.

On Oxalic acid.  It is impossible for Varroa to become immune.

On its timing.  I wait till the days are cold such that the whole hive is in the box...and there is no brood underway so no capped brood cells.  I also do not like to open hive that time of year, so for maximal assurance I hit them 3 times, 2 weeks apart instead of pawing around in there checking for brood.  That should be a bit of an overkill, because if I get timing right and there is no brood (leaving literally nowhere for a mite to hide), and all the bees are in because of cold, that 1st shot should do the job.  I just don't trust that I am that good at timing...thus three shots over 6 weeks.  I haven't started for this winter yet, but may this weekend.

Barry

This research article has nothing to do with hive beetles. Strictly Mites. You must not have opened the link provided in the first post here?  Check it out and be informed.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2019, 11:18:25 am »
BAHBEEs , Reply Number 2 shows results of MITE reduction in 4 experimental hives with beginning mite counts and ending mite counts. Take a look at reply number 2 also.
Phillip

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2019, 02:33:23 pm »
Fine, but up till now the towels have been marketed for Beetles...not mites...

AND they still kill too many bees no matter what your actual target.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2019, 02:55:31 pm »
Fine, but up till now the towels have been marketed for Beetles...not mites...

AND they still kill too many bees no matter what your actual target.

BAHBEEs;  Again, please read the research paper that was provided in the first link. The towels are used in a totally different way than in SHB control. No comparison. We are not in any way talking SHB control here or the method that towels are used with this treatment method. If you will take the time to read the paper you will see that the sheets are saturated in Glycerin, therefore there is almost 0 chance bees being caught up in the sheets, as the sheets fibers (shop tile fibers) are SEALED, using a Glycerin Water and Oxalic additive for MITE treatment. I am not disputing that bees do get caught up in naked, unaltered shop tile sheets as used in SHB control. A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT WITH TOTALLY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES.   
I hope that helps.
Phillip

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2019, 04:23:42 pm »
Ah, so it is actually and oxalic acid approach.  Honestly I cannot see the point now that we have the vaporizer rigs.  They work well and are very easy.  I don't even have to open the hive which is great when you winter treat.  But to each their own.  It may be because I am a chemist, but the vapor approach is just so easy.

Like most...no I have not read the paper, sorry not the best approach but...  I may when I am not at work...where I read scientific papers all day.  I can easily slip a conversational post into my day with no disruption...reading a paper...that would start to eat into my real work, so it will have to wait for off time.

As far as the towels or beetles...I was very underwhelmed ;)

Offline Live Oak

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 07:43:47 pm »
Ah, so it is actually and oxalic acid approach.  Honestly I cannot see the point now that we have the vaporizer rigs.  They work well and are very easy.  I don't even have to open the hive which is great when you winter treat.  But to each their own.  It may be because I am a chemist, but the vapor approach is just so easy.

Like most...no I have not read the paper, sorry not the best approach but...  I may when I am not at work...where I read scientific papers all day.  I can easily slip a conversational post into my day with no disruption...reading a paper...that would start to eat into my real work, so it will have to wait for off time.

As far as the towels or beetles...I was very underwhelmed ;)

Totally agree!  I have tried the shop towel method that Randy is currently working on and found that they do work but work best on hives that completely shred the towels up and remove them from the hives.  About 1/2 -1/3 of my hives propolized the towels and allowed them to remain inside the hive.  These hives benefited very little from the treatment. 

The shop towel method is a LOT of work and mess to deal with.  Now that ProVap has the ProVap 110 and ProVap EZ, I see little need for the shop towels. 

Lastly, in my state the shop towel treatment is ILLEGAL and will get you a ticket if inspected.  Being that I am one of the state bee inspectors, I no longer experiment with this method as it would not be eithical for me to be doing something that is not legal and thus setting a bed example for other beekeepers. 

The bottom line is that for OAV or OA to be effective, the bees must come in contact with the OA.  The more the bees come in contact with the OA, the more effective it is.  Other commercial beekeepers I have spoken to are mixing OA with powdered sugar at the rate of 5% OA mix with the sugar and they just sprinkling the powder mix over the top bars and let the bees clean it up.  They are in my opinion just using a different method of causing the bees to come in contact with the OA. 

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2019, 09:57:17 pm »
Live Oak, Mr. State Inspector: I would not mix Oxalic acid with sugar.  I realize you do not and we?re referring to other beeks.  That is a bad practice and would have impacts on the digestive tract, maybe affective various other organs of the honeybee.  The acids are not meant to be take internally by the bees.

Yes, a person can argue some vapors are bound to come in contact with bee mouth parts but the vapors work and many studies show no detrimental effects of OAV on bees used as directed.
Blessings
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2019, 10:13:52 pm »
Ah, so it is actually and oxalic acid approach.  Honestly I cannot see the point now that we have the vaporizer rigs.  They work well and are very easy.  I don't even have to open the hive which is great when you winter treat.  But to each their own.  It may be because I am a chemist, but the vapor approach is just so easy.

Like most...no I have not read the paper, sorry not the best approach but...  I may when I am not at work...where I read scientific papers all day.  I can easily slip a conversational post into my day with no disruption...reading a paper...that would start to eat into my real work, so it will have to wait for off time.

As far as the towels or beetles...I was very underwhelmed ;)

Totally agree!  I have tried the shop towel method that Randy is currently working on and found that they do work but work best on hives that completely shred the towels up and remove them from the hives.  About 1/2 -1/3 of my hives propolized the towels and allowed them to remain inside the hive.  These hives benefited very little from the treatment. 

The shop towel method is a LOT of work and mess to deal with.  Now that ProVap has the ProVap 110 and ProVap EZ, I see little need for the shop towels. 

Lastly, in my state the shop towel treatment is ILLEGAL and will get you a ticket if inspected.  Being that I am one of the state bee inspectors, I no longer experiment with this method as it would not be eithical for me to be doing something that is not legal and thus setting a bed example for other beekeepers. 

The bottom line is that for OAV or OA to be effective, the bees must come in contact with the OA.  The more the bees come in contact with the OA, the more effective it is.  Other commercial beekeepers I have spoken to are mixing OA with powdered sugar at the rate of 5% OA mix with the sugar and they just sprinkling the powder mix over the top bars and let the bees clean it up.  They are in my opinion just using a different method of causing the bees to come in contact with the OA.

''Now that ProVap has the ProVap 110 and ProVap EZ, I see little need for the shop towels.''
 
Randy's advantage Glycerin-Oxalic saturated shop towel method is also another way for the mites to come in constant contact with the Oxalic and is described as being a 1 time only treatment, up to three times a year is part of the advantage. But the obvious successful numbers in mite reduction as I also quoted and posted in my post number 2, is the real advantage. I have never read, seen or heard of such success with Oxalic used in any other form or method, including the vapor route where numerous back to back treatments with the vaporizer method are recommended to be used, as the success as Mr Oliver posted in this article as described in my post Number 2.  As I have stated before I love the vaporizer method. And have developed one of my own design. So the vaporizer method is nothing but a plus for me. However I am striving to be unbios in my opinion of any, new to me, natural as possible method of handling mites, researching, asking for opinions as now, to you and others, looking for any good advantage to help rid my bees of mites.

I am quoting Mr Oliver form post Number 2
''However, even after several months, the bees had not chewed them out.''

Quoting you 
''I have tried the shop towel method that Randy is currently working on and found that they do work but work best on hives that completely shred the towels up and remove them from the hives''

Two different answers. This puts beekeepers such as myself in a position as being not able to trust what Mr Oliver says at the most, or take anything he says with a grain of salt at the least on this subject. I have great respect for you and your opinions. I also have great respect for Mr Oliver with his many years of research.  With him I have never talked to or with, with you I have.  You have always given good information to me both publicly and privately via PM for this I thank you and hope to always be able to count on your good advice in future questions that I may have. 
Sincerely, Phillip 
 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 11:11:15 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2019, 11:35:51 pm »
Picture of Randies glycerin-oxalic coated shop towel. Does this look like the average shop towel strip?  :grin:

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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 11:51:17 pm »
Phil, that looks like heavy cloth, like cotton flannel.  Just a guess on my part from looking at the pic.  I doubt the bees could tear up or get stuck in such finely woven material.
You are on to something that looks very promising directed at Varroa.

Blessings
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2019, 01:13:52 am »
Thanks Mr Van, I thought the same thing. He says it is shop towels. One article says (Randy used Scott Shop Towels). After looking at the picture, I was wondering if he meant the red cotton type shop towels as sold in harbor freight and any other shop supplier. But I went back and looked again at the article and it did say,( Randy used Scott Shop Towels) The dog I have in this hunt is the welfare of my bees and the responsibility that I assumed when I took them from the wild and placed them in an artificial surrounding. It was hard and hot work removing the first bees form a two story house that was beneath the siding, several feet from the ground.  The entire area of the bees location had to be removed, and replaced siding and boards without obvious tampering to look upon. Up and down a ladder all day in the wide open hot sun. All this done on a ladder with no help. The bees deserve every honest chance to prosper under my care. I try to help them and at the same time as natural as possible. From that hive, spring before last, are now right at 30 hives. Let me add, that I might not have a single hive survive that first winter had it not been for Mr Live Oaks advice last fall, helping me get the bees through winter with his good advice of how to open feed pollen, his advice along with David at barnyard bees and a couple more in our similar latitude. I am very grateful to you Mr Live Oak. I am however very puzzled as you can probably imagine. 

Allow me to share something with you. Kamon Reynolds recently did a video series featuring an experimental colony, which had had 94 mites in an alcohol wash per 300 bees. He did five Oxalic vapor treatments in a row, even still he was getting thirty two mites per three hundred mite wash. It took three added rounds making a total of EIGHT OAV treatments, along with apivar to finally reach zero mite count. He said the colony has dwindled and still has signs of multiple viruses. He and Ian Steppler discussed this in the comment section of one of his videos. A couple reasons that Kamon gave for doing the series was that his "main goal was to show that OAV isn't quite as effective as many think it is with brood present in the hive. Also, to show that mites are to be taken seriously."  Now Kamon was using OAV just like you, I and others here use. Now we all know how easily the mites can get out of hand when brood is present. The trick is to make sure we are on top of it all the time and not let the mites ever get out of hand?  Just another plus with the Glycerin-Oxalic saturated shop towel method, if the results are as successful as Mr Oliver has claimed. Let me iterate, I am not disputing Mr Live Oaks claims but I am now TOTALLY puzzled.

Last season, beeboy 01, here at beemaster did a series right here of a similar problem hive. With similar results. I am happy to tell you that beeboy01 told me that the hive did survive, but it was a fight. With the results shown by Mr Oliver why would I not have been excited at such promising results as he has shown, Via the Glycerin-Oxalic saturated shop towel method? Look what Mr Oliver claims to have accomplished with the shop towel method. Outstanding results! Look at his chart in post 2. I would have hoped that Mr Oliver was accurate with his findings, and still do have (some) hope. Now I honestly do not know what to think.

I am hoping that there is some sort of decrefency somewhere for the good of all. Perhaps a missed something. Even our new member concurred that he has used this method and has found only one mite in fifteen hives. And he posted that before I posted the chart showing similar results by Mr Oliver. It is rare that we have such conflicting opinions here but the mite situation seems to be one of them.   

I am not trying to twist anyones thinking but I am trying to sort this out. Scratching my head.  :grin: I am more confused now than when I first asked the beginning question.  :grin: :grin: :grin: I suppose the only satisfaction that I might now get is to try this myself, by taking the bull by the horn next season, I hate to lose a hive to anything, SHB or MItes. So most likely I will set aside three or more hives and treat only with the shop towel method, if it is legal here and I see no reason why it would not be, Oxalic is Oxalic whichever form it may be in? While treating the rest the hives the old fashion way OAV.  :shocked: Wish me luck!
Blessings to all,
Phillip
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 02:39:39 am by Ben Framed »

Offline beesonhay465

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2019, 10:43:12 am »
my earlier post about the shop towel oxalic acid treatment i only treated 2 times. the supposed advantage of this method is that it is working for 1 month and the bees are constantly  exposed to to the treatment . as compared to oav which is a quick kill and does not kill mites that are already in capped cells. i will say that i have never done a mite count and dont have any way to tell if it is effective or not. however the hive is still alive.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2019, 11:43:49 am »
my earlier post about the shop towel oxalic acid treatment i only treated 2 times. the supposed advantage of this method is that it is working for 1 month and the bees are constantly  exposed to to the treatment . as compared to oav which is a quick kill and does not kill mites that are already in capped cells. i will say that i have never done a mite count and don't have any way to tell if it is effective or not. however the hive is still alive.

Yes that is the way I understand it also, a constant exposure to oxalic treatment. Meaning even though mites may be inside the capped brood at the time of treatment, the mites will become exposed when they emerge, (unlike OAV), (vapor), therefore ensuring they will be destroyed before they can breed and once again zero in on uncapped brood, breaking the cycle. This way we still have the advantage of OAV and therefore no harm to our bees as reported via fromic.
Let me ask, did your treated towels look like the one in the picture provided by Mr Oliver in post reply 18? Did you experience the bees chewing up your towels getting caught up in the towels and dieing, and propolized the remaining towels?  According to Mr Oliver the bees do not chew up these towels.  So that is a conflicting report and part of the reason I am scratching my head. lol .   Thank you beesonhay465 for your post.
Phillip   
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 06:49:06 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline incognito

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2019, 12:56:46 pm »
regarding resistance:
I plan on doing the dribble method this week. So I expect that some of the syrup/acid solution will fall to the bottom board and remain there indefinitely. Same as with the vapor method. Nothing the beekeeper does removes the acid crystals from every nook and cranny of the hive.
Does the acid in the syrup break down quickly or just get consumed by the bees?
Tom

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2019, 01:05:47 pm »
regarding resistance:
I plan on doing the dribble method this week. So I expect that some of the syrup/acid solution will fall to the bottom board and remain there indefinitely. Same as with the vapor method. Nothing the beekeeper does removes the acid crystals from every nook and cranny of the hive.
Does the acid in the syrup break down quickly or just get consumed by the bees?

I do not know Tom, I am learning as I go. I have not looked into the dribble method yet. What you say makes sense to me.
Phillip
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 01:19:22 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline minz

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2019, 04:14:34 pm »
Picture of Randies glycerin-oxalic coated shop towel. Does this look like the average shop towel strip?  :grin:

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Yes I have tried it. But I used the proven cardboard method, not the paper towel method. If you read the articles you will see that the cardboard strips with OAG has been used effectively (the picture shown is not a shop towel). Randy is attempting to not have to go back into the hives to remove the cardboard but to develop a means of having the bees remove it for him. It is a labor savings.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/
A note here to the others that live in the wet areas not to keep in on in the wet, early spring. The other forum was really tracking this issue heavy and the thought was not to do this with poor, damp flying weather. Another Beek here in the area did it in spring with poor results.
Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2019, 05:31:22 pm »
Picture of Randies glycerin-oxalic coated shop towel. Does this look like the average shop towel strip?  :grin:

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Yes I have tried it. But I used the proven cardboard method, not the paper towel method. If you read the articles you will see that the cardboard strips with OAG has been used effectively (the picture shown is not a shop towel). Randy is attempting to not have to go back into the hives to remove the cardboard but to develop a means of having the bees remove it for him. It is a labor savings.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/
A note here to the others that live in the wet areas not to keep in on in the wet, early spring. The other forum was really tracking this issue heavy and the thought was not to do this with poor, damp flying weather. Another Beek here in the area did it in spring with poor results.

Thanks minz, Until now I have not heard ot the coadboard update. I knew the picture did not look to be a standard shop towel. Though was described as such unless I missed it. I will look again. You seem very educated with Mr Olivers experiments. Since you have tried both this method and the formic flash method. Can I ask you which you prefer of the two?

Offline minz

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2019, 03:36:59 pm »
As for a choice between the three treatments mentioned I think each has its own application. Cardboard (or paper towel) prevents the mites from building. Formic is a major knock down. OAD gets the mites when they are broodless.
I do like his approach and his documentation. Love his website. I am not a production guy so I like to research and experiment. I am also very cheap. Spending $56 /pack of 10 formic pro when you need 20 is a bit steep.
I learned the flash treatment from a different source. I had not even realized Randy had to studied it until I could not find the link to the document. It is a very inexpensive method of knocking down mites after pulling honey in July. My first record of using it was July 28, 2015. I did not do it in 2018 since I ran out of formic and moved over the cardboard strips 6/2/2018. As for Oliver I also did half of my OAD in December with sugar water and half with glycerin (so much for the scientific method by changing two variables). I used some Formic Pro (picked up one 10 pack on sale) late in the year when a couple of my hives were up in numbers.
I did half of the hives with flash and half on the remaining Formic Pro (long treatment) this year (2019). My mite numbers were fine in July and I thought that I was going to get a pass and then in September my numbers were between 5-8 so I elected to treat. We will see how I winter before making a comment on that. It was real late in the year (started in Sep). A quick note is that a hive that I had pulled the queen to allow to requeen was up to 28 mites. With zero capped I elected formic pro. Very late in the year to be raising a queen.
Randy also has a very good excel spredsheet model. If you are looking to play with when to treat it is well worth a look.
Poor decisions make the best stories.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2019, 06:25:35 pm »
With regards to earlier post; I looked at the Kamon Reynolds mite load video, the one with 60-70 mites per single wash from a queenless hive.  Mr. Reynolds utilizes a provap 110.  I do not know his grams of Oxalic acid per hive.  Protocol is one gram per 10 frame deep.

Some notes of interest:
By coincidence this day I treated with Oxalic acid vapor using provap 110 and 2 grams Oxalic acid per double deep.  Of choice interest is vapor escape variablity per hive.  Most hives were sealed well whereas some hives had air leaks between hive bodies allowing the acid vapors to escape the hive.  I place a foam pad on/in the entrance to exclude vapor lose.

Point is: some hives retained the Oxalic acid vapors with a high degree of confidence whereas a few hives the vapor escaped challenging the required dosage.  I can only compensate with multiple treatments per year, 2019 was 4 treatments with OAV.

Relative to Mr. Kamon Reynolds and multiple unsuccessful treatments with OAV, the hive in question, one would have to question vapor escape as a factor of such high mite load.

Regards
Van

« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 06:43:41 pm by van from Arkansas »
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Has Anyone Used the Randy Oliver Shop Towel Mite Treating Method?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2019, 12:43:08 am »
Thanks  minz and Van as well as all others who have posted here. So far I have only treated with OAV. So far I have not lost a hive to Varroa Destructor, nor do I wish to. I have ask these many questions, trying to get good honest opinions from different keepers.  I feel this has been accomplished.  I am also of the opinion we are all better off when we discuss such things and bring in different points of view sharing different experiences as well as results. This Has to be healthy and especially healthy if no one is offended and open minded to such discussion. Hopefully this been accomplished on this thread.  I have respect for each of you and your individual findings along with each response.
Many Thanks,
Phillip