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Offline LizzieBee

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One of my hives died
« on: November 10, 2019, 02:29:14 am »
One of my three hives absconded or something. They left plenty of honey and pollen, and there were a few frames of brood that had dead bees that were halfway out of their cells. Kinda eerie looking. This hive was a split from this spring. One ten frame box. It was doing really well... until now. What do I do with the frames and stuff? I can't exactly split another hive to clean up after these guys since it is too late in the year.

Thank you for your suggestions in advance!
-Lizzie

Offline ifixoldhouses

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2019, 07:43:58 am »
I'd treat the rest of them for mites.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2019, 11:39:17 am »
Lizzie, question:  did you treat for mites,  if so what and how did you treat with.  Bees abscond for a reason, I am trying to figure why the bees left?
Van
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Offline LizzieBee

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2019, 03:06:03 pm »
I only treat by dusting them with powdered sugar. And I treated my other two hives using that method when I discovered the third hive died.

-Lizzie

Offline 2Sox

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2019, 03:27:04 pm »
I only treat by dusting them with powdered sugar. And I treated my other two hives using that method when I discovered the third hive died.

-Lizzie

We all have to find our way with treating.  Some are treatment free and are doing well.  I did that for years and never had a year with more than 25% winter survival. It's heartbreaking.  I've been doing Formic Pro/MAQS now for some years and my winter survival is never below 80%. I've added OAV in the spring and early summer.  Formic Pro around Labor Day and then again 4 weeks after the end of the last treatment. Last two years I was 6 for 6 - 100% survival.  Of course there are many other factors and variables involved but I'd recommend you consider treating with other than powdered sugar.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 08:59:37 pm »
I agree with 2Sox.  If you can make sugar dusting or no treatment work, then that's great, but sugar dusting is a VERY soft treatment.  I made a really hard go at sugar dusting with one of my hives this year.  I dusted them every single week without fail for almost the whole summer, and when I did a sugar roll a couple weeks ago to test their mite load, they were at almost 10%!  I'm treating them with MAQS right now.  I do have a hive that seems to be doing well with sugar dusting alone, but they were queenless at 2 different times this year, so they had 2 brood breaks, and the hive never got very big over the summer.   
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2019, 10:31:34 pm »
Lizzie, I agree with 2Sox, Member, ifixoldhouses, and Van. You would do well to heed there advice in my opinion.
Phillip

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2019, 05:40:52 am »
I agree wit everyone else who says that you need to treat. Sugar treatment requires it to bee done every 3 days and it still does not work well.
Since you are like me and don?t like to use chemicals, I recommend that you check into OAV treatment. It uses vaporized oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is naturally occurring in certain fruits and is naturally in honey.
Jim Altmiller

Offline cao

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2019, 01:10:35 pm »
Since the thread got a little sidetracked on treating a hive, I will throw my 2 cents in for what it is worth.  I haven't treated since I started and have fewer than average losses for my area (usually 10-20%).  Now back to the original question.

What do I do with the frames and stuff?

I don't know your weather.  In my area with freezing nights, I would just store them in a mouse proof unheated shed until next spring.  If you don't have freezing weather, you can either add the frames of honey to your other hives or freeze them for a couple of days and then store them.


Offline The15thMember

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2019, 01:54:05 pm »
What do I do with the frames and stuff?
Good advice from cao.  I have freezing nights and not a lot of hives, so I store drawn comb in my unheated garage in big plastic bins to keep wax moths and mice out of them.  If you are going to give the honey from this dead-out to your other hives, I'd recommend freezing it first so that any mites or other pests that are on the combs don't get transferred to your other hives.       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2019, 05:28:07 pm »
I agree wit everyone else who says that you need to treat. Sugar treatment requires it to bee done every 3 days and it still does not work well.
Since you are like me and don?t like to use chemicals, I recommend that you check into OAV treatment. It uses vaporized oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is naturally occurring in certain fruits and is naturally in honey.
Jim Altmiller

Jim I tend to agree with you about the sugar shake. I don't know how effective sugar shake really is. According to Dr Ramsey, the scientist which discovered that the mites feed on the fat bodies and not bee blood, mites mostly burrow between platelets beneath the body. I do not see where powered sugar will be of much effect in that critical section of the bee. On the back and sides of the abdomen yes, maybe so. Beneath the body and between platelets I just don?t see it happening?

Cao I have great respect for you and you posting advise. You have always given good accurate information. I will not question or dispute your results as I accept them as being honest here. You undoubtedly have a good strand of bee. If I remember correctly, Mr Bush,another Beekeepers whom I respect also is treatment free and successful. If that is wrong Mr Bush please correct me.   
Phillip

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2019, 01:12:52 am »
Seems like Deja Vu, every Oct/Nov.  Does it not, The15thMember ?
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2019, 08:49:29 am »
Seems like Deja Vu, every Oct/Nov.  Does it not, The15thMember ?

Yes, indeed.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2019, 09:16:55 am »
Seems like Deja Vu, every Oct/Nov.  Does it not, The15thMember ?

Yes, indeed.

And probably will be as long as we continue to have new beekeepers. That is why, in my opinion, the series that you two did last year should be placed in the white highlighted area making easy access to beginners as well as seasoned beekeepers. If it has not already been done.
Phillip 

Offline 2Sox

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2019, 10:12:41 am »
Since the thread got a little sidetracked on treating a hive, I will throw my 2 cents in for what it is worth.  I haven't treated since I started and have fewer than average losses for my area (usually 10-20%).  Now back to the original question.

What do I do with the frames and stuff?

I don't know your weather.  In my area with freezing nights, I would just store them in a mouse proof unheated shed until next spring.  If you don't have freezing weather, you can either add the frames of honey to your other hives or freeze them for a couple of days and then store them.

This is good, sensible advice. Just to add some extra insurance, place the entire box with frames inside a contractor bag and tape it up.  Just in case you don't get to it early enough, that's protection from wax moths.  I have a dedicated upright freezer for this purpose. I place an entire medium inside and then after a couple of days transfer it immediately into a contractor bag.
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Offline rgennaro

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2019, 11:52:25 am »

[/quote]

And probably will be as long as we continue to have new beekeepers. That is why, in my opinion, the series that you two did last year should be placed in the white highlighted area making easy access to beginners as well as seasoned beekeepers. If it has not already been done.
Phillip
[/quote]

is there any way to point me to this series? I agree that it would be a great resource for new beeks (me!)

Offline The15thMember

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2019, 11:55:51 am »
is there any way to point me to this series? I agree that it would be a great resource for new beeks (me!)
Here you go: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NvP-olm7vwMxPVH-Oi1CNHH70Wq913ym/view

That is why, in my opinion, the series that you two did last year should be placed in the white highlighted area making easy access to beginners as well as seasoned beekeepers. If it has not already been done.
Phillip 
If mods would like to sticky this link, feel free.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2019, 07:45:45 pm »
Since the thread got a little sidetracked on treating a hive, I will throw my 2 cents in for what it is worth.  I haven't treated since I started and have fewer than average losses for my area (usually 10-20%).  Now back to the original question.

No treatment?  Is not splitting simply stated a mechanism of physical treatment.  Every split reduces the mite load by 50%, a three way split reduces by 1/3.  Splits reduce mite loads inwhich my understanding is a split is a mite treatment.  Mite treatment defined as a means of reducing varroa.  Treatment free and chemical free are two different statements.  I know of no treatment free beekeeper that last, I know of many chemical free beekeepers that prosper.

I just want folks to understand mites must be dealt with: splits, heat, hot chemicals, organic acids, or even small cell which has debates to this day.  There is no such thing as a hive not affected by varroa and subsequent viral load.

The subject is a dead out which to me appears to be mite related, so mite treatment is subject related.

For the record, M. Bush swears by small cell as a means of reducing mite load and I quite frankly, well, I believe Bush.  There are bonafide research articles that support and reject the small cell theory so believe what you wish.

Van
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 08:11:14 pm by van from Arkansas »
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2019, 08:39:35 pm »
Since the thread got a little sidetracked on treating a hive, I will throw my 2 cents in for what it is worth.  I haven't treated since I started and have fewer than average losses for my area (usually 10-20%).  Now back to the original question.

No treatment?  Is not splitting simply stated a mechanism of physical treatment.  Every split reduces the mite load by 50%, a three way split reduces by 1/3.  Splits reduce mite loads inwhich my understanding is a split is a mite treatment.  Mite treatment defined as a means of reducing varroa.  Treatment free and chemical free are two different statements.  I know of no treatment free beekeeper that last, I know of many chemical free beekeepers that prosper.

I just want folks to understand mites must be dealt with: splits, heat, hot chemicals, organic acids, or even small cell which has debates to this day.  There is no such thing as a hive not affected by varroa and subsequent viral load.

The subject is a dead out which to me appears to be mite related, so mite treatment is subject related.

For the record, M. Bush swears by small cell as a means of reducing mite load and I quite frankly, well, I believe Bush.  There are bonafide research articles that support and reject the small cell theory so believe what you wish.

Van




Good post Mr Van,
Phillip

Offline LizzieBee

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Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2019, 04:55:49 pm »
Thank you all so much! Next year I?m going to use the OAV treatment. It sounds much more promising.

The other two of my hives absconded. They didn?t leave anything like the first hive. It doesn?t make much sense to me because one of these hives had a queen who was clipped... so did she die and the workers left? All the honey is completely gone. There is some pollen left. It?s really sad. I want to try again in the spring but I don?t want to fail them again.

I thought I knew a lot about honeybees, but in reality I don?t.

Lizzie