Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: One of my hives died  (Read 631 times)

Online The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 580
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2019, 07:00:47 pm »
Thank you all so much! Next year I?m going to use the OAV treatment. It sounds much more promising.

The other two of my hives absconded. They didn?t leave anything like the first hive. It doesn?t make much sense to me because one of these hives had a queen who was clipped... so did she die and the workers left? All the honey is completely gone. There is some pollen left. It?s really sad. I want to try again in the spring but I don?t want to fail them again.

I thought I knew a lot about honeybees, but in reality I don?t.

Lizzie
Sad to hear about your hives, Lizzie, but don't give up!  The first year can be hard; like you said, there is so much to learn.  But every beekeeper on this forum is still learning, from newbees like us all the way to the experts.  I'm sure you learned a lot in your first year, both from mistakes and from successes, and every experience is a good experience if you learn from it.  Now you are armed with this new knowledge to be a better beekeeper next year, which is what we are all trying to do, no matter how long we've been beekeeping.  Good luck!  :happy:             
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline incognito

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 232
  • Gender: Male
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2019, 07:28:40 pm »
My biggest mistake....actually mistake is a kind word....my dumbest move was not treating a new package for mites with Apivar until September and then not doing a mid treatment / post treatment count before it got cold.
So I have no idea where I stand with the mites.
Is there anything I can do now to make up for my earlier neglect?

ETA:The forecast for two days next week is high temperature in mid 50 degrees, all other days are colder.
 
Tom

Offline jimineycricket

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Gender: Male
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2019, 08:31:52 pm »
Tom,
You can do a mite wash at 50 deg. Then if you need to you can do an oxalic acid dribble. Cheap & easy.
jimmy

Offline Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2828
  • North Mississippi
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2019, 08:59:49 pm »
Tom,
You can do a mite wash at 50 deg. Then if you need to you can do an oxalic acid dribble. Cheap & easy.

jimineycricket sounds good to me. Tom, do you usually have many 50 plus degree days there in New York from this point on?  If not, you may want to go ahead and treat them anyway with OAV while brood is down. I don't think it will hurt anything if you treat, even if levels are oK since the OAV method has no fear of resistance build up.  I might even do it again in December?  I plan on treating all my hives, sort of an insurance policy, in December again anyway.
Phillip

Offline incognito

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 232
  • Gender: Male
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2019, 02:12:58 am »
thanks Jimineycricket and ben
50 plus degree days will become rare as we get into December. See the second graph in the below links.

Average Weather in December in Central Islip New York, United States   Daily high temperatures decrease by 7?F, from 48?F to 41?F, rarely falling below 29?F or exceeding 59?F.
 Daily low temperatures decrease by 7?F, from 35?F to 28?F, rarely falling below 16?F or exceeding 47?F.
https://weatherspark.com/y/24508/Average-Weather-in-Central-Islip-New-York-United-States-Year-Round
https://weatherspark.com/m/24508/12/Average-Weather-in-December-in-Central-Islip-New-York-United-States#Sections-Temperature



 
Tom

Online van from Arkansas

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1048
  • Gender: Male
  • Van from Arkansas.
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2019, 05:44:20 pm »
Incognito: no mite counts, so I have no idea where I stand with the mites.

May be to your surprise but I never do mite counts.  I will do dead mite counts after Oxalic acid vaporization, OAV.

My reasoning:
1.  I know my bees have mites.
2.  Mite counts are an estimate, not precise, with alcohol wash most likely being the most accurate.  I just cannot deliberately kill my bees unless I know they are diseased with contagious foul brood.  Alcohol certainly kills the bees,,, I can?t stand it, my bees trust me.
3.  I treat with a chemical that is already present in honey, not invasive as most treatments.
4.  My bees act very normal, all is well within 5 minutes after treatment with OAV.
5.  My queen laying is not interrupted, nor can I detect any negative side effects with treatment using OAV.
6.  Each hive is unique with actual number of mites, that is one hive my be hygienic whereas the next very susceptible and I have to many hives to count each hive with respect to mite number.
7.  With a provap 110, treatments take less time than methods use for counting mites.

Considering above, treatment is not invasive and I know mites are present so treating is a win for both me and the bees.  I see no need to estimate the number of mites prior to treatment with OAV when treatment is conducted in a timely manner.  Timely matter means after honey is extracted in early June and subsequent treatments on a monthly basis.

Blessings to All
Van
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline incognito

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 232
  • Gender: Male
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2019, 07:07:37 pm »
Van, what you said makes sense to me. A master beekeeper at today's club meeting said today that from what he knows the acid treatment effectiveness drops significantly after 3 days.
Conveniently, I was able to pick up a package of Api-bioxal from my bee club today for $7 and 60 ml syringe barrels from my local pharmacy for less than $1 each.
So for a relatively inexpensive treatment per hive, I can do multiple treatments over the next few weeks. Or risk costly consequences.
That being said, the club stressed that it really are the bees emerging starting in August that need to be disease free (not mite free) for the best chance for winter survival.
Vaporizing seems to be more reliable than the drip method - and safer to me to administer.



Tom

Online van from Arkansas

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1048
  • Gender: Male
  • Van from Arkansas.
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2019, 07:35:02 pm »
Thank you all so much! Next year I?m going to use the OAV treatment. It sounds much more promising.

The other two of my hives absconded. They didn?t leave anything like the first hive. It doesn?t make much sense to me because one of these hives had a queen who was clipped... so did she die and the workers left? All the honey is completely gone. There is some pollen left. It?s really sad. I want to try again in the spring but I don?t want to fail them again.

I thought I knew a lot about honeybees, but in reality I don?t.

Lizzie
Sad to hear about your hives, Lizzie, but don't give up!  The first year can be hard; like you said, there is so much to learn.  But every beekeeper on this forum is still learning, from newbees like us all the way to the experts.  I'm sure you learned a lot in your first year, both from mistakes and from successes, and every experience is a good experience if you learn from it.  Now you are armed with this new knowledge to be a better beekeeper next year, which is what we are all trying to do, no matter how long we've been beekeeping.  Good luck!  :happy:             

Member, expert advice, very nice reply, very kind of you with your encouraging words.  I wonder about the word EXPERT.  My Grandpa had bees, I was exposed to bees in the fifties, yea I mean 1950?s.  I obtained my first hive in the 1960?s.  But in no means do I consider myself an expert.  I?ve killed a lot of bees in my life with the best of intentions.  I have learned a very important lesson: what works one year may not work the next year.

Take a newspaper combine for example.  Some bees will quickly remove all traces of paper whereas another hive only feet away may leave the newspaper intact with only small doors cut through the newspaper.  I used to fold one corner of the newspaper, about one inch folded upon itself placed over stores, never brood in the far corner of the hive.  This is for an air vent, just about an area the size of a nickle, 0.5 sq in to the corner of the hive.  Then leave alone and all is well the combine worked well.  However, the last time I did a newspaper combine with one corner open for air,  well, let me tell ya, the top weaker queenless bees poured through the stronger bottom hive and killed the queen.  Five minutes after the combine, I see a ball of bees in front of the hive.  One dead queen in the middle.

Point made, what works well is not absolute.  Took me a long time to learn this, guess I was slow to learn as this technique has always worked for me,,, until.  I think I will always be learning and leave the term EXPERT for those endured.
Blessings
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Online van from Arkansas

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1048
  • Gender: Male
  • Van from Arkansas.
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2019, 07:59:52 pm »
Van, what you said makes sense to me. A master beekeeper at today's club meeting said today that from what he knows the acid treatment effectiveness drops significantly after 3 days.
Conveniently, I was able to pick up a package of Api-bioxal from my bee club today for $7 and 60 ml syringe barrels from my local pharmacy for less than $1 each.
So for a relatively inexpensive treatment per hive, I can do multiple treatments over the next few weeks. Or risk costly consequences.
That being said, the club stressed that it really are the bees emerging starting in August that need to be disease free (not mite free) for the best chance for winter survival.
Vaporizing seems to be more reliable than the drip method - and safer to me to administer.

Yes, absolutely, you hit that nail on the head:  The bees in August or Sept depending on the area are the winter bees hatching.  Of utmost importance to rid mites as you pointed out.  Unfortunately, I found out the hard way the truth of your statements.

As a positive reminder, M. Bush is treatment free, I believe this.  However, I just can?t seam to put the right pieces together to accomplish what Bush has succeeded at for years.  Every time I try, I lose bees, I gave up on treatment free.  But wish success to those that try.

Blessings
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Online The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 580
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2019, 06:19:09 pm »
Member, expert advice, very nice reply, very kind of you with your encouraging words.  I wonder about the word EXPERT.  My Grandpa had bees, I was exposed to bees in the fifties, yea I mean 1950?s.  I obtained my first hive in the 1960?s.  But in no means do I consider myself an expert.  I?ve killed a lot of bees in my life with the best of intentions.  I have learned a very important lesson: what works one year may not work the next year.

Take a newspaper combine for example.  Some bees will quickly remove all traces of paper whereas another hive only feet away may leave the newspaper intact with only small doors cut through the newspaper.  I used to fold one corner of the newspaper, about one inch folded upon itself placed over stores, never brood in the far corner of the hive.  This is for an air vent, just about an area the size of a nickle, 0.5 sq in to the corner of the hive.  Then leave alone and all is well the combine worked well.  However, the last time I did a newspaper combine with one corner open for air,  well, let me tell ya, the top weaker queenless bees poured through the stronger bottom hive and killed the queen.  Five minutes after the combine, I see a ball of bees in front of the hive.  One dead queen in the middle.

Point made, what works well is not absolute.  Took me a long time to learn this, guess I was slow to learn as this technique has always worked for me,,, until.  I think I will always be learning and leave the term EXPERT for those endured.
Blessings
Thank you for the compliment, Van.  I think that one of most important things I've learned in my short year and a half as a beekeeper is just what you said, "what works well is not absolute."  There are so many factors involved with keeping bees and so many variables from one beekeeper or hive to the next, from different strains of bees, to the natural management style of the beekeeper, to the microclimate of the area where the bees are living.  I think it's also important to remember that bees are living creatures, and, as anyone who has worked with more traditionally relatable animals like dogs or horses knows, every individual is different.  And looking at the hive in the sense of the superorganism, I think that is true too.  Sometimes what works for one hive might not work for another (like you mentioned with the newspaper combine), not for any real reason, but just because each hive is different.  It's part of what makes beekeeping so interesting, but it also makes it hard as a beginner, because what you are really trying to figure out is what works best for you and your bees, and in some instances there's really no one who can figure that out but you, and sometimes the only way to do that is by trial and error.       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Mamm7215

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2019, 06:57:38 pm »
I agree with Van, I don't sugar roll or alcohol wash, i look at mites on my bottom board.  If they're there, that's all I need to know.  I'll look at actual numbers after a treatment.  Formic Pro in spring/august and OAV from November on until I see little or no mites.  This is my 1st year with my bees and this is the schedule I've devised from my experiences here in BC, Canada.  I had super low mite drop almost all summer then it exploded the last week of August.  I wasn't able to treat until mid September with Formic.  That knocked the mites right down to almost nothing, then a month later it went off the chart again so it's oav right now.  So far so good.  I'd hate to lose my 1st hive so hoping they make it.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17416
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: One of my hives died
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2019, 08:33:19 am »
The problem with powdered sugar isn't that it doesn't dislodge mites, it's that any treatment while there is brood is not very effective:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesvarroatreatments.htm

No, I don't treat at all:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnotreatments.htm

Things that contribute to succeeding at treatment free:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoursimplesteps.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beessctheories.htm
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin