Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var  (Read 215 times)

Offline The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 563
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« on: October 12, 2019, 11:53:30 am »
I have a hive that needs a varroa treatment, and I found a bee place near me that carries both Apiguard and ApiLife Var, and I'd like to try one or the other.  I know they are both thymol based products, but what are the differences between them?  Which one would you guys recommend? 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline jimineycricket

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Gender: Male
Re: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2019, 09:14:44 pm »
You did not get much response on your post. I have used Apilife Var and thought it did a good job.   I also like Apiguard.  The biggest difference this time of year is the temperature parameters for each one.  (You might look at "Scientific Beekkeeping.com" in regard to the Apiguard.)
   jimmy
jimmy

Offline Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • North Mississippi
Re: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2019, 10:32:21 pm »
I did not comment because I have not used either. I was waiting on the answers also. :smile:

Offline The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 563
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2019, 11:30:11 am »
You did not get much response on your post. I have used Apilife Var and thought it did a good job.   I also like Apiguard.  The biggest difference this time of year is the temperature parameters for each one.  (You might look at "Scientific Beekkeeping.com" in regard to the Apiguard.)
   jimmy

Thanks, Jimmy, that article was really helpful.  Just the sort of thing I was looking for. 

I did not comment because I have not used either. I was waiting on the answers also. :smile:
Don't worry, Phillip, I knew you weren't ignoring me for no reason.  :happy:

I was really just looking for recommendations if anyone had any; I expect both products will work just fine.  I'll also talk to the people at the bee store and see what advice they can give me. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 563
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2019, 08:36:27 pm »
I've got a question about these thymol treatments.  Apiguard says the temp should be above 60 degrees F, and Apilife Var says temps should be between 64-95 degrees F.  Does this means that the daytime highs need to be in the 60s, or that the nighttime lows need to be in the 60s?
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline TheHoneyPump

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 579
  • Work Hard. Play Harder.
Re: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2019, 09:27:36 pm »
I have tried the thymol based a few times. My experience and thus my opinion:
---> Honestly ... High price - mediocre results
I must admit though, I do really like the smell of the Thymol.  Makes me think of a nice pork tenderloin roasting in the oven whenever I walk by a hive that has a thymol treatment in it.  ( Much easier on the lungs than a whiff of Formic or OA! )

If you are looking to keep the status quo basically controlling and keep at the current mite levels in the hive, then they will work somewhat OK.  If you are looking for a knock down, something effective to deal with a sharply risen problem level of mites in the hive(s) then I strongly suggest you look at alternatives.

My regimen:  Oxalic Vapor OR 1/2 dose Formic Strips (MAQS) OR ApiVar. ..... in that order respectively per increasing level of mite level infestation to be dealt with.

Hope that helps helps you make the better decision.
Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz

Offline The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 563
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2019, 08:52:08 am »
I have tried the thymol based a few times. My experience and thus my opinion:
---> Honestly ... High price - mediocre results
I must admit though, I do really like the smell of the Thymol.  Makes me think of a nice pork tenderloin roasting in the oven whenever I walk by a hive that has a thymol treatment in it.  ( Much easier on the lungs than a whiff of Formic or OA! )

If you are looking to keep the status quo basically controlling and keep at the current mite levels in the hive, then they will work somewhat OK.  If you are looking for a knock down, something effective to deal with a sharply risen problem level of mites in the hive(s) then I strongly suggest you look at alternatives.

My regimen:  Oxalic Vapor OR 1/2 dose Formic Strips (MAQS) OR ApiVar. ..... in that order respectively per increasing level of mite level infestation to be dealt with.

Hope that helps helps you make the better decision.
Thank you very much for your reply, HP.  I highly value your opinion and will definitely take it into account. My preference would have been to use the MAQS on this hive since I used that before with good success, but my normal supplier ran out and it?s getting too late in the season to wait on a special order, so I thought I?d give the thymol a try. What are your thoughts on the temperature requirements?  Because if I need the lows to be in the 60s, it?s already too late, and I?ll have to use something else.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline jimineycricket

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Gender: Male
Re: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2019, 10:26:45 am »
In my humble opinion, your main concern is the high end temperatures.  The higher temps will accelerate the chemical release and cause serious injury to your bees.  Of course, low temps will slow the chemical action and may reduce the effectiveness of your application.  So, you want that sweet window!
  jimmy
jimmy

Offline TheHoneyPump

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 579
  • Work Hard. Play Harder.
Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2019, 01:17:38 pm »
Observations
- at low temperature, the thymol does not release in sufficient concentration and thus is not effective.  Few 2 zero mite load reduced
- at warm temperature the thymol releases to fumigate the hive and becomes effective.  Too warm and it releases in higher concentration which actually chase the bees out of the hive. The bees do not like it, they barely tolerate it.  I have not noticed signs of the thymol to kill or damage the bees.  I have seen nearly the entire colony rush out of the hive and hang on the outside of the boxes within a day after first application.  I can imagine if the conditions inside persisted, they would leave (abscond), though that did not happen with mine.

Look at your normal seasonal ambient conditions and the 2 week weather forecast for your area.  If temperatures will be within the target window, the thymol will work.  Just know up front that it will not cause a huge drop or eradication of mites in the hive like the other treatments, however under the right conditions the thymol will definitely cut the numbers back quite a bit.  It is expensive compared to the others, $/hive, and is not nearly as effective. That said it does work, somewhat.  If thymol is all you have, it is much better than wasting time sugar dusting and significantly better than nothing.

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 01:38:31 pm by TheHoneyPump »
Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz

Offline The15thMember

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 563
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Apiguard vs. ApiLife Var
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2019, 02:29:18 pm »
Thanks so much for your replies, Jimmy and HP, but this whole thing actually just became a moot point.  This morning I called the bee place that was out of the MAQS, and I got someone more competent on the phone than last time, and apparently they'll be getting a shipment of MAQS on Monday, so problem solved.  :happy:       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.