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Author Topic: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?  (Read 428 times)

Online Ben Framed

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Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« on: October 04, 2019, 10:09:28 pm »
Has anyone here looked into alternative ways to deal with the Varroa Destructor?  This may be worth looking into.

Long-term evaporator for formic acid for the safe ...
https://rodneybeekeepersclub.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/manual-nassenheider.pdf
NASSENHEIDER Professional Evaporator is a long-term evaporator for the continuous evaporation of formic acid 60% ad us. vet. for the varroasis (Varroa destructor) treatment of the honey bee (Apis mellifera). NASSENHEIDER evaporator is a bee drug approved in Germany.

The Nassenheider Evaporator - Dave Cushman
http://dave-cushman.net/bee/nassenheider.html
The Nassenheider evaporator frame. My method of installation of the Nassenheider unit is somewhat different, as my intended use was with essential oils rather than formic acid.The bees more likely to build comb in any spaces during periods of use that may be much longer than that used with formic acid for varroa treatment, but I see no reason why it would not be as effective for acid evaporation.

ACID VAPOR BATHS IN THE BEEHIVE - Bee Care
https://beecare.bayer.com/bilder/upload/dynamicContentFull/BeeNow/BEENOW_acidvaporbathi6296aew.pdf
PROPER APPLICATION OF FORMIC ACID FOR VARROA MITE CONTROL ACID VAPOR BATHS IN THE BEEHIVE It?s an irritating affair for the Varroa mites: Formic acid is popular among beekeepers to protect their honey bees from these dangerous parasites. But if it?s applied incorrectly, the acid can also harm the bees. A new study sheds light on the process.
Nature?s weapon
Formic acid not only protects against mites; the chemical, which was first
extracted by scientists from some ants species, is produced naturally and used
by the ants as a defense spray to ward off their enemies. The larvae of the puss
moth can also squirt formic acid up to 30 centimeters when it feels threatened.
Other creatures such as jellyfish, scorpions and beetles employ the substance
to defend themselves, too. Even plants exploit the power of the chemical: The
urticating hairs of stinging nettles also contain formic acid.

Offline Live Oak

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2019, 01:42:27 pm »
Interesting but I am not so sure it would be very easy or inexpensive to import. 

Offline Live Oak

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2019, 10:38:29 am »
You may want to read my post in another thread about using formic acid products.  Formic acid products of ANY kind are off my list of treatments.  Especially MAQS and Formic Pro. 

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2019, 01:29:56 pm »
Not Sure why this is such a persistent subject but...

Why are you not just using the easily available and safe (as long as the applicator doesn't breath it) Oxalic acid vaporizer?

Formic acid just is to chancy.

Barry

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2019, 11:31:38 am »
Not Sure why this is such a persistent subject but...

Why are you not just using the easily available and safe (as long as the applicator doesn't breath it) Oxalic acid vaporizer?

Formic acid just is to chancy.

Barry

As results reported By Kamon Reynolds of Tennessee Bees, with an experimental hive this very season, very high in mite counts, even after continued use via oxalic alone did not get the job done. Experience and experimentation reported here by our own Beeboy01 past 2018 season which OA was administered properly and timely was a real eye opener as to the desperate fight that he had with high mite counts even after treatment after treatment. Ian Steppler and Kamon Reynolds had a very good discussion on this matter in the comment section recently, with both agreeing that oxalic alone is not enough on one of Kamons videos. There are members here that use oxalic, (including myself being an oxalic user and so far have not lost a hive), even so and inspite of, have had colonies fail because of mites. The above reasons are just a few examples of why the persistence. So open mindedness and researching other promising methods, to use in conjunction with oxalic, in my opinion, should be welcome and appreciated by all beekeepers. HP has mentioned apivar, which is used by both Ian and Kamon along with oxalic.  I plan to look into this product as well, especially the ingredients.
Phillip
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 08:21:15 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2019, 09:18:39 am »
The assumption is that the acid does less harm to the bees than the Varroa mites.  This may or may not be true.  Especially in the long run.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2019, 09:40:43 am »
The following is a very informative article Published by  Bee Culture on this subject.

http://beeculture.com/winter-bees-formic-acid-used-right-a-successful-combination/
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 04:31:39 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline salvo

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2019, 09:56:52 am »
Hi Folks,

Where's Finski when you really need him?

Finski: I teached 6 years ago oxalic acid trickling in this forum, and I cannot see a sign of learning.

Sal
Salvo

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2019, 11:20:51 am »
The following is a very informative article out on ivy Bee Culture on this subject.

http://beeculture.com/winter-bees-formic-acid-used-right-a-successful-combination/

Let me add this article was published July 2015

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2019, 10:32:09 pm »
Hi Folks,

Where's Finski when you really need him?

Finski: I teached 6 years ago oxalic acid trickling in this forum, and I cannot see a sign of learning.

Sal

I do not know Sal, but I would like to have him chime in. He has not posted since I have been a member here, that I can recall.
Phillip

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2019, 09:19:25 am »
He regularly would get banned for violation of the rules of conduct by being rude and condescending.  But I agree I miss his knowledge.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Live Oak

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2019, 11:34:24 am »
After my recent experience with MAQS.  I would not use nor recommend the use of ANY Formic acid product for use on honey bees for ANY reason........not unless you just want to play Russian Roulette with your queen and don't mind wiping out 50% of your bees in strong colonies and killing the rest of the colonies.  You would be far better off with repeated OAV on a 4 - 5 day schedule or better yet, if temperatures permit, thermal treatment.   

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2019, 12:16:14 pm »
After my recent experience with MAQS.  I would not use nor recommend the use of ANY Formic acid product for use on honey bees for ANY reason........not unless you just want to play Russian Roulette with your queen and don't mind wiping out 50% of your bees in strong colonies and killing the rest of the colonies.  You would be far better off with repeated OAV on a 4 - 5 day schedule or better yet, if temperatures permit, thermal treatment.

Thank you Mr Live Oak. I am always seeking something to help. Actually OAV is a benefit to me as I have designed a vaporizer of my own as mentioned in another topic titled, (ProVap EZ 110). There I recommended you designing a thermal treatment custom fit to fill your needs. I may look into something like this myself. Should be fairly easy to do?
Phillip
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 03:44:26 pm by Ben Framed »

Online ifixoldhouses

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Re: Formic Acid The Varroa Mite Terrorizer?
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2019, 05:05:20 pm »
After my recent experience with MAQS.  I would not use nor recommend the use of ANY Formic acid product for use on honey bees for ANY reason........not unless you just want to play Russian Roulette with your queen and don't mind wiping out 50% of your bees in strong colonies and killing the rest of the colonies.  You would be far better off with repeated OAV on a 4 - 5 day schedule or better yet, if temperatures permit, thermal treatment.

I concur Formic pro is off my list too. I put it on 12 hives when the first 3 days were below 85, and it caused 3 swarms, the queens left with a couple hundred bees, what a mess, trying to figure out who was who.
Backyard Bees NC  1st year bkpr 12 hives