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Author Topic: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.  (Read 414 times)

Online van from Arkansas

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Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« on: September 20, 2019, 05:44:47 pm »
How much lime around each hive do I add to the soil?  Say, one cup, or more like four cups per in the soil around each hive?  Each hive is approximately 18 inches above the ground.

In N. Arkansas it like the small hive beetle capitol of the USA, seems like anyway.  The small hive beetle is the number one threat to honey bee hives.  Killing beetles is a constant battle.

I have purchased sacks of garden lime to add to the soil around my hives and hope somebody has experience as I have no knowledge of how much to use.  I realize the amount is a guess based on my specific soil type but any guess is better than mine.  Thanks for you advice.

Blessings
Van
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 10:44:41 pm »
Lots.  And that is just an estimate. 


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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2019, 09:33:39 am »
I have not tried lime.  I was impressed with using the nematodes though.  I sprayed them around all my apiaries year before last and haven't had many issues with SHB since.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 10:47:55 am »
Which species and source did you use if you don't mind saying?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2019, 01:09:50 pm »
When I found them I just searched on "Nematodes" and "small hive beetles" and only one source and species came up...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2019, 05:58:57 pm »
I bought Heterorhabditis indica.  It's specifically for SHB.  I didn't expect much but I was pleasantly surprised, numbers are waaay down.  Apply after rain, water in well.

Also, I have a new method using a 1-1/2" flexible putty knife and a shallow cardboard box - the kind that holds quart jars.

When I pop the hive lid, and the "jail break" happens, the putty knife is more precise than the hive tool.  If I inspect often enough, the bees seem to be learning to get out of the way when I chase down each beetle.  Then I flick the squished SHB into the cardboard box.  I don't know if it's true or false that one dead SHB brings more over to inquire, it's just insurance.

When I pull up a frame I hold it over the "smash box." It's easier for me to knock the beetle into the cardboard tray and squish it there than chase it all over the frame.  I'd rather have SHB guts in a disposable box than in the hive anyway.
 

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 04:35:20 pm »
Applied nematodes this morning.  Been seeing too many beetles lately.

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2019, 05:21:20 pm »
I bought Heterorhabditis indica.  It's specifically for SHB.  I didn't expect much but I was pleasantly surprised, numbers are waaay down.  Apply after rain, water in well.

Also, I have a new method using a 1-1/2" flexible putty knife and a shallow cardboard box - the kind that holds quart jars.

When I pop the hive lid, and the "jail break" happens, the putty knife is more precise than the hive tool.  If I inspect often enough, the bees seem to be learning to get out of the way when I chase down each beetle.  Then I flick the squished SHB into the cardboard box.  I don't know if it's true or false that one dead SHB brings more over to inquire, it's just insurance.

When I pull up a frame I hold it over the "smash box." It's easier for me to knock the beetle into the cardboard tray and squish it there than chase it all over the frame.  I'd rather have SHB guts in a disposable box than in the hive anyway.

The bees seam to learn to get out of the way.

I am so glad you texted this FlGardener.  I have noticed the same thing but I thought if I tell folks this, they will think I?m going nuts.  Really, I don?t even use smoke and I have to quickly open the lid to squash the running beetles as the beetles scatter as soon as light appears.  My bees are OK with my intrusive behavior of quickly squashing running beetles.

Now every beek knows a person should go slow when working with bees or the bees can get defensive, especially this time of year, Fall when honey stores are a matter of life and death to a bee.  Yes slow is a must.  However when it comes to beetles slow is not feasible.  My honey bees appear to realize my speed is OK and they do not get excited or try to sting me.  I assure you, my bees have learned I am on a beetle kill mission and allow quick movements by my hive tool.

My bees have learned to create the beetle jail on the lid which makes it easy for me to squash the beetles.  Years past, beetle jails were usually on an outer frame, but now a days the jail is often on the hive lid.  Can bees learn such behavior, I believe so.
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2019, 05:23:13 pm »
>Can bees learn such behavior, I believe so.

And they can teach it.  But honestly you are probably not doing them any favors.  Everytime you open the lid all those corraled beetles escape.  At least the ones you don't squish...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2019, 06:13:04 pm »
Yep, some beetles run into the comb only to face my wrath once again with freeze spray.  As I pull the frames one by one and freeze beetles.  I will not ignore a single beetle.  A few beetles fly and just delay their fate for another day.  I cannot remember losing a hive to beetles, a few frames, you bet ya. 

Yes Sir, I have been horrified by slimed stinky wormy frames which are bagged and frozen, but I always managed to save the hive.

Van
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2019, 07:19:08 pm »
I have found the thumb to be the most accurate when it comes to squeezing hive beetles, before they reach the safety of the comb. That's when Mr Vans Double punch of the freeze comes in handy. Too many, (should of been squished beetles), get away with the hive tool or any other tool that I have tried is my experience.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 11:04:50 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2019, 07:29:54 pm »
Mr Van, there is a fellow south of you, just across the state line, that is experimenting using powdered lime, in the oil bottom tray instead of oil or DE .  I am wondering how this will work out. I ask him, a what if question, what if the bees start fanning and the powered lime were to become lifted, even slightly, if he had considered this potential problem. I guess we will see?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 11:05:25 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline paus

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2019, 07:40:14 pm »
I am speculating but I believe that hydrated lime will not stay powder very long as the hive moisture will harden the lime and probably make it useless, so far as killing SHB.  If it works that would be much more convenient  than any thing else. 

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2019, 10:26:28 pm »
I am thinking you are right Paus. Plus, as stated I am concerned the fine power making its way onto the  screen, (before it turns hard from moisture),  no matter the Small amount, can not be good for bee nor man. I am glad that folks are always trying to find a better way to deal with the SHB. But so far, the safest way is your way with the oil trays, in my opinion . I am still wondering about the guardian blocker that I recently posted about here. I have yet to try this new SHB prevention tool.
Phillip

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2019, 10:48:52 pm »
Mr. Ben, a concern of mine using lime on the bottom tray is the fact that lime is basic and honey is acidic.  Acids and bases attract each other, so more specifically I don?t want lime in my honey and the two substances are attracted to each other, chemically speaking.  Now a little bit of diatomaceous earth in my honey is not a concern of mine.  Folks directly eat diatomaceous earth, NOT ME, however diatomaceous earth is calcium carbonate which is good for the stomach as is the active ingredient in Rolaids, tums, malox etc.  I could use the calcium anyway.  So if a little diatomaceous gets in my honey, no problem, but lime would be a problem.

Blessings
Van
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2019, 10:57:28 pm »
Mr. Ben, a concern of mine using lime on the bottom tray is the fact that lime is basic and honey is acidic.  Acids and bases attract each other, so more specifically I don?t want lime in my honey and the two substances are attracted to each other, chemically speaking.  Now a little bit of diatomaceous earth in my honey is not a concern of mine.  Folks directly eat diatomaceous earth, NOT ME, however diatomaceous earth is calcium carbonate which is good for the stomach as is the active ingredient in Rolaids, tums, malox etc.  I could use the calcium anyway.  So if a little diatomaceous gets in my honey, no problem, but lime would be a problem.

Blessings
Van

Thank you Mr Van for your advice and explanation of lime and honey. I did not know the scientific ins and outs of the possibility and results of mixing lime and honey, except in my way of thinking, it would not be a good idea. Thanks for your confirmation from the scientific point of view. 
 :grin:
Phillip
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 11:47:00 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline Clcotner

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2019, 03:27:32 am »
I'm a total rookie, but I did stumble on to a good solution for hive beetles.

I made a wooden tray that slides into the slot on my screened bottom board.  I line the tray with aluminum foil, and then fill the tray with about 1/8" of vegetable oil.  When the bees chase the hive beetles, they dive through the screen and drown in the oil.   More importantly, when the hive beetle larvae reach the stage where the drop out of the hive to dig into the soil, they drown in the oil instead.   I had 3 of my 4 hives encounter hive beetle problems, but the hive beetles were total eradicated in about 2 weeks using the trays.  I have a pdf that shows the tray, but the post won't go through when I include it even though the pdf file is small.

I'm hoping this same solution will help with varroa mites.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2019, 10:32:59 am »
Clcotner
Uploading pictures etc, here must first be resized. The best app that I have used for this is ReSizer. Nothing to it with this app. I did try other suggested apps to no avail.  Good luck!
Phillip

Offline Clcotner

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2019, 02:09:32 pm »
This is the tray I built.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Need advice on liming soil for beetle control.
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2019, 02:29:04 pm »
@Clcotner - How does the foil stand up to scraping off cappings & hive debris?
                  Do you have to use a spatula not a hive tool, so as not to tear it?
                  How long does the foil last?
                  Thanks.