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Author Topic: New logging information requirements  (Read 505 times)

Offline TheFuzz

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New logging information requirements
« on: July 29, 2019, 10:45:40 am »
I've discovered when going register for another year as an apiarist that there's new reporting requiriments, detailed here:

https://www.pir.sa.gov.au/biosecurity/animal_health/bees/hive_management

So if what I'm reading is correct, Australians need to now document what they do with their bees and submit this yearly.

Any Australians here have any thoughts on this? I'm personally annoyed by how much monitoring they're doing and how much time is going to be needed to fill out these forms. I want to keep records for myself as well so I either need to write out two journals, or do it over the computer and buy a printer.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2019, 02:47:24 pm »
We have similar annual agricultural surveys here. I did it the first and second year, then I stopped. They kept sending them and I ignored them. Then they started calling me. Finally I told them I didn?t have the time to fill them out. They don?t send them to me any more. Most of these surveys don?t have any teeth behind them to force you to. Check your laws.
Jim Altmiller

Offline eltalia

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2019, 04:22:26 pm »
I didn't get past reading #4. A tad unfair bringing that ruling to a number.
One in all in, in my book... but it is Sou'Aussie.

"Beekeepers with 50 or more hives must successfully complete a
 course in honeybee pest and disease management approved by
the Chief Inspector. "

https://www.pir.sa.gov.au/biosecurity/animal_health/bees/hive_management

/winx/

Bill

Offline max2

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2019, 07:15:04 pm »
I'm sure we have something similar in Qld.

I do keep records but not in a form I could submit - I'm hardly computer literate
I also check all my hives for diseases regularly - twice a year.
Any hives with AFB I would burn
I do have our honey tested for AFB and EFB every year.

They say about records of bee and products movements. Why are we allowing honey in from overseas? Who is checking the health and safety of this?

I'm under 50 hives but surely it is in our own interest to make sure that we can recognise diseases?

In the past our DPI used to run workshops. I have not seen one advertised for yonks. I think there are a handfull of inspectors between Brisbane and Cairns. How would they deal with all the paperwork if beekeepers indeed would submit records?




Offline eltalia

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2019, 07:30:19 pm »
My note was specific to the rule Max, as far as I know we in QLD do not
discriminate so... we just ignore it all (P&D)!
There is cutoffs at 2 and again 50 for "conditions" yet generally the whole
system here (QLD) is more about "as long as we know who has them" then
anything else. As is the case for water delivery bores for domestic use.
Bug Brother has to know. Heh

Cheers

Bill

Offline TheFuzz

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2019, 10:13:04 am »
I want to record what's going on with my bees, for my own documentation sake. I want to do this with pen and paper.

I don't want to have spend time writing out a separate form for the government. I want to record details for my own diary sake that I'd feel weird about handing over, like needing to replace damaged frames that don't fit properly inside the hive, or that a hive has just a few frames of honey and I gave them a few cups of watered sugar, or that I noticed a good amount of pollen, or the brood comb is looking particularly dark and close to needing replaced.

So to comply by this new law, I might need to write out a second journal, just to hand over to them, which is annoying having extra work imposed on me. I'll either have to hand draw out the table or go to the library to print the forms.

Offline Bamboo

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2019, 07:53:42 pm »
Fuzz
From what I read of the regs they are mainly interested in disease management which in my opinion is a good thing.

The problem I have with Flowhives and the marketing behind the product is that it is all about just turning on a tap and hey presto instant honey.
Keeping bees is a trendy "thing" at the moment.

Too many people are buying a hive these days without understanding or even wanting to understand anything about hive management, disease control etc etc. 99% would have no idea what AFB or EFB looks like. It will be a case of " My bees died. don't know why." Then the hive gets robbed, disease spreads and then the equipment is sold to another newbie at a "good" price and the cycle continues.

Whilst I HATE govmint rules and regulations they have to legislate to the lowest common denominator and probably in this case is not a bad thing. Our industry is under huge threat from all sorts of pressures, climate, drought, lack of forage due to urbanisation you name it, anything that keeps a lid on disease spread is a good thing.

Experienced guys like Bill and Max have a handle on disease and methods to take care of it and do. It is the newbies who will bring down a local area.

As much as I hate to say it but I think a course in identifying diseases and pest in hives should be compulsory before you are permitted to keep bees.

In your case do your inspections and keep your records and if and when they ask for them(which I doubt they will) you have the info and have complied with regs.

My 2 cents.

Cheers
Mark

Offline eltalia

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2019, 08:25:00 pm »

I want to record what's going on with my bees, for my own documentation sake. I want to do this with pen and paper.
(edit)
So to comply by this new law, I might need to write out a second journal, just to hand over to them, which is annoying having extra work imposed on me. I'll either have to hand draw out the table or go to the library to print the forms.

Quickly skimming those docs you link to I cannot see what has changed
so maybe a specific quote will help in offering any guidance?
These things are usually the product of industry input along with what
G'mnt deems requires legislating to have us all "toe the line".

Also one not so fond of being run by rote built for the lowest common
 denominator, in the instance of biosecurity I truly believe we are not
doing enough - on the East Coast at least. 2014 changed a lot of the risk
factor in beekeeping, and not at all in a positive way.
Bottom line is to contact PIRSA and ask for clarification. I doubt your
local industry reps would agree to a system too onerous to install.

Cheers.

Bill

Offline TheFuzz

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2019, 10:55:39 pm »
Here's the link:

https://www.pir.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/341944/Determination_of_the_information_required_and_the_manner_and_form_of_records_to_be_made_by_beekeepers.pdf

It's table B on page 2, that details the required information. They want recorded:

1) Date(s) the specified biosecurity related management practice(s) were undertaken.

2) Sufficient identifiers to enable identification and traceability to the level of individual apiary(s), including apiary identification, apiary location, and number of hives and swarm catch boxes in each apiary.

3)Sufficient identifiers to enable identification and traceability to the level of individual hives.

4) Specific details, methods and results relating to the specified biosecurity practice(s).

5 ) Documentation supporting specified biosecurity practice(s)/traceability.

6) Name and signature of person(s) undertaking the specified biosecurity practice(s).

So this means, every time someone in my state opens a beehive, they are legally required to record the date they opened the hive. The address needs to be recorded, alongside number of hives and swarm catch boxs. Then the size of the hives need to be counted and recorded, then it needs to be recorded whether any pests or diseases were noticed. If we capture a hive, we need to record it, if we make a split, we need to record it, if we place an extra super on one of my hives, we need to record it, if we take off a super, we need to record it, if we move bees to a new location, we need to record it, if we buy hives or queens off someone else, we need to record it. Apparently cash in hand sales of bees is no longer legal, tax invoices and proof of documentation of the transaction needs to be recorded. Not only is it legally required to mention what has been done, but some level of proof for the transaction needs to be provided. Then they require name and signature.

Then, at the end of the bee year when it's time to renew for annual registration, we are expected to post in this form, that's been actively filled out throughout the year. I can't just record the information for myself and give it to them if requested. I actually need to fill out this form constantly throughout the year, then submit it to them to reapply for being an apiarist.

It's made registering and complying by the law to be a pain in the ass.

Offline Bamboo

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2019, 05:26:48 am »
The Fuzz
If you read the doc again it says:
"bi-annual hive inspections for notifiable conditions." That means once every 6 months.
it then goes on :
"B1 detection/suspected detection of a notifiable condition."
That means if you find or suspect you have AFB or whatever else is a notifiable disease the rest of B to B6 has to be done. If you don't have AFB then return is nil.

No where does it say you need to record every time you open a hive, add a super, split a hive etc. You should be keeping these records anyway for your own sake.
Registration is biennial once every 2 years not every year.
Mate I think you are making a mole out of a molehill. The doc is only interested in whether you find disease. The rest of it is designed to prevent the spread of disease.

Like I said earlier "my bees died" equipment is sold, they want to be able to identify the source of disease and shut it down. What if you bought some used equipment and infected your hives with AFB? I am sure you would be pretty annoyed especially when you were the one that has to put the match to your hives and burn them.

The whole point of knowing where hives are is that if there is an outbreak neighbouring beekeepers can check their hives.

The recording of moving hives to different apiaries is what any apiarist does anyway, where you bought queens from etc is just good best practice.

Biosecurity should be foremost in every beekeepers mind.


Offline TheFuzz

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2019, 02:40:11 am »
Maybe I misunderstood. I was going off their example that they provided where they're mentioning quite a bit of details.

I appreciate your words thank you.

Offline Bamboo

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Re: New logging information requirements
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2019, 11:52:46 pm »
No worries mate.
I get angry off at officialdom as well. Old and cynical plus grumpy old man syndrome :smile:

The regs are just saying once every 6 months dive in and do an inspection for disease. If you don't find any record it and move on.

Good luck
Cheers
Mark