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Author Topic: Mite away strips kills bees  (Read 573 times)

Offline BILLB9

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Mite away strips kills bees
« on: July 25, 2019, 09:41:56 am »
Fist year beekeeper in NJ.
I put 2 strips in a single brood box with 2 supers on. With entrance fully open and top shifted slightly to vent.
The temperature has been below 79 degrees since the application.
Almost immediately dying bees started piling up in front of the hive.
Well over 1000 the first 24 hrs.
Since then they have been pulling out bees (kicking and screaming)for the last 24 hrs. Some look pale in color. The doomed can't walk correctly and dragging their tung.
Now, 2 days since the application the dead are over 2000 and still being pulled from the hive.
PLEASE  PLEASE leave advice and thoughts :tongue:
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 06:59:47 pm by BILLB9 »

Online The15thMember

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2019, 02:05:48 pm »
I have only used MAQS once, so hopefully someone more experienced can comment, but this is sort of part of the deal with MAQS.  The formic not only kills mites, but it will also kill any bees are weakened from mites or disease.  I'm not really sure why the healthy bees are evicting bees that are still living ("kicking and screaming" were your words), but I'd guess that the healthy bees know something is wrong with them, even if it's not visible to us.     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline BILLB9

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2019, 06:58:43 pm »
I think they are now uncapping the adult bees that would be emerging in the next day or two and dragging them out. This may be why the doomed bees are pale in color??? (the yellow parts are a bit white)

Online The15thMember

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2019, 10:31:03 pm »
If the bees they are dragging out are alive, then they are not pupae, but if they are dead then you are probably right, they are almost full term pupae. If they are uncapping brood, it may be because the brood was infected with varroa.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2019, 10:15:14 am »
I have only used MAQS once, so hopefully someone more experienced can comment, but this is sort of part of the deal with MAQS.  The formic not only kills mites, but it will also kill any bees are weakened from mites or disease.  I'm not really sure why the healthy bees are evicting bees that are still living ("kicking and screaming" were your words), but I'd guess that the healthy bees know something is wrong with them, even if it's not visible to us.     

Very good point Member. If they are evicting affected bees, those effected bees could very well have a virus transmitted by the varroa. Thus a fresh start cleaning out the hive. Thank you for your wise answer.
Phillip

Offline Live Oak

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2019, 10:42:17 am »
Fist year beekeeper in NJ.
I put 2 strips in a single brood box with 2 supers on. With entrance fully open and top shifted slightly to vent.
The temperature has been below 79 degrees since the application.
Almost immediately dying bees started piling up in front of the hive.
Well over 1000 the first 24 hrs.
Since then they have been pulling out bees (kicking and screaming)for the last 24 hrs. Some look pale in color. The doomed can't walk correctly and dragging their tung.
Now, 2 days since the application the dead are over 2000 and still being pulled from the hive.
PLEASE  PLEASE leave advice and thoughts :tongue:

I know what the label says.  I don't use MAQS unless the temperatures are at or below 75 degrees but at or above 50 degrees.  Using this product in temperatures above 75 degrees in my opinion even though the label states up to 85 degrees, you are going to encounter heavy brood and bee losses, possibly queen losses. 

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2019, 11:29:46 am »
Fist year beekeeper in NJ.
I put 2 strips in a single brood box with 2 supers on. With entrance fully open and top shifted slightly to vent.
The temperature has been below 79 degrees since the application.
Almost immediately dying bees started piling up in front of the hive.
Well over 1000 the first 24 hrs.
Since then they have been pulling out bees (kicking and screaming)for the last 24 hrs. Some look pale in color. The doomed can't walk correctly and dragging their tung.
Now, 2 days since the application the dead are over 2000 and still being pulled from the hive.
PLEASE  PLEASE leave advice and thoughts :tongue:

I know what the label says.  I don't use MAQS unless the temperatures are at or below 75 degrees but at or above 50 degrees.  Using this product in temperatures above 75 degrees in my opinion even though the label states up to 85 degrees, you are going to encounter heavy brood and bee losses, possibly queen losses.

I have a question, being its 50-75 coming out of summer here means that fall has arrived here in Mississippi. The question, Once the bees are treated that late, is there a good possibility that affected bees, which may have lost some of the fatty protective layer, such as DR Ramsey and Mr Van described in his research, be recovered once the bee is freed from the mite? Or is the damage done and the particular bee had it and doomed?
Phillip

Online The15thMember

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2019, 01:05:15 pm »
I am purely speculating here, so we'll need someone with more experience to confirm or deny this, but Mr. Van equated the fat body to the bee's liver.  If the similarities between a human liver and an insect liver extend far enough (which I have NO idea if is true or not), the human liver can in fact regenerate.  So if a human liver can, I'd think it possible that the bee "liver" could.  Whether it does or not, I cannot say. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2019, 05:08:58 pm »
I am purely speculating here, so we'll need someone with more experience to confirm or deny this, but Mr. Van equated the fat body to the bee's liver.  If the similarities between a human liver and an insect liver extend far enough (which I have NO idea if is true or not), the human liver can in fact regenerate.  So if a human liver can, I'd think it possible that the bee "liver" could.  Whether it does or not, I cannot say.

X 2 .

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2019, 07:43:22 am »
My understanding after watching Dr. Ramsey's webinar is that when the fat bodies are eaten they do not re-form, when they are gone they are gone.  It has been known for years that when a pupa has been fed on it's life span is shortened by 30% and it doesn't function as well as a bee that has not been fed on by a mite.  If the fat bodies were able to be replenished this probably would not happen.

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2019, 05:29:06 pm »
My understanding after watching Dr. Ramsey's webinar is that when the fat bodies are eaten they do not re-form, when they are gone they are gone.  It has been known for years that when a pupa has been fed on it's life span is shortened by 30% and it doesn't function as well as a bee that has not been fed on by a mite.  If the fat bodies were able to be replenished this probably would not happen.
I agree, AR, that seems to makes sense.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2019, 11:23:45 pm »
Thanks AR and you also Member. Just another reason to make sure our hives are in order asap as its deeper into August already?
Phillip

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2019, 07:19:15 am »
My understanding after watching Dr. Ramsey's webinar is that when the fat bodies are eaten they do not re-form, when they are gone they are gone.  It has been known for years that when a pupa has been fed on it's life span is shortened by 30% and it doesn't function as well as a bee that has not been fed on by a mite.  If the fat bodies were able to be replenished this probably would not happen.

This being the case, a colony, no matter the health, will be doomed if the queen has been sucked by the varroa because she has no chance of recovering her far body loss before going into the winter months? She will not make it irregardless of the strength and health of the rest of the hive? Thus the colony will collapse during the winter months? Is this a fair assumption? And if so, isn?t it imperative that the queen also be left inside the hive when treating the colony? Could this be a reason folks sometimes say oxalic kills the queen when actually, the varroa had sucked her fat bodies and by this she was already doomed? We are talking formic here but I think it is important to bring up oxalic as well this time. Both formic and Oxalic May be our best friend when it comes to varroa? Both are important.
Phillip

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2019, 07:36:41 pm »
Phillip,
Keep in mind that the queen is fed around the clock by the bees. If there is a shortage of food, the bees will keep feeding the queen even to the point of their own death. I have open hives only to find the queen and a few other bees alive. I was able to give her bees and keep her alive.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mite away strips kills bees
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2019, 08:27:41 pm »
What you are saying is true Jim about the bees feeding her to their own death if necessary.  From the video that was referred and the far bodies described, bee liver depleted and not rejuvenated, is where I was asking these questions. From what I understand these fat bodies in bees is a must in-order for a bee to survive. Doctor Ramsey didn?t discuss it in the life of a queen bee, or if he did I missed it. And he is one of the few folks that has not answered my questions. I would really like to know more about this . Thank you Jim as always. You are very appreciated by me.
Phillip