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Author Topic: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?  (Read 4980 times)

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2019, 08:13:38 pm »
Do you guys think a queenless hive is a factor affecting the apiary?
Does crushing them when moving boxes set them off?


I have one queenless hive, this does not affect my apiary.  Trying to figure out if I want to raise more queens or not and will determine my actions towards this queenless hive.

Crushing a bee causes release of negative pheromones, this will induce defensive behaviors.  Slow is always good.

I always wear a veil when working bees, BECAUSE  I have a dread of insect in my ear.  So always keep an ear wash handy.  Twice, I have had a Knat get in my ear, no harm but resulted in a fear of bugs in ear as a result.  Plus, a friend who is a professional had to remove a beetle from a lady?s ear.  Again, no permanent damage, but the poor lady was traumatized as the beetle buzzed in attempt to free itself.  The beetle was killed with alcohol wash, prior to removal.  My friend presented me the details in full gore to enhance my already acquired fear of bug in the ear.

Cheers 
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline saltybluegrass

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2019, 08:48:53 pm »
I will add my 2 cents
 There is not one person on here holding I?ll feelings.
We all make this work.
I belong to a sports message board- I get called a racist/ a mentally ill person/ or plain dumbazz- sorry Jim-
Al is right - honey pump is (just the facts ma?am)straight to the point  kinda person.
I don?t mind stating my stupid approach as it elicits a wide variety of helpthat others immediately find they need help with.

Al- I started my business with your #2 ingredient- high school dropout great strong back. When I looked around at all my success and growth, I realized I don?t have the want or smarts to change my employees.
Good on you!! I?ll catch up next time around  :cool:
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2019, 11:19:49 pm »
Crushing a bee causes release of negative pheromones, this will induce defensive behaviors.
Yeah, I did that before I got a chance to smoke the top of the hive and then 3 of them reacted. That is why I was reluctant to label them as aggressive.

ETA:
It is also likely that I applied too much smoke on more than one occasion.
Tom

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2019, 11:37:45 am »
Incognito: for your reference, mid July, my 16 hives full of honey and I can walk around freely without being chased nor stung.  I walk my bees almost everyday.  Hives that produce bees that become aggressive are not tolerated.

Just me, not my advice to you nor others.  I will not tolerate mean bees: bees that chase me, bees that sting me while wearing short sleeves and just watching the bees.



Van,

I'm curious. What is your solution for mean bees?
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2019, 12:53:30 pm »
Requeen with known gentle stock.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2019, 05:43:26 pm »
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline BAHBEEs

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2019, 05:57:28 pm »
A short experience:

- I run Ruskys.  4 hives now.  I tried a sask package this spring.  I think I released too early and ended up re-queening a month later with my first Italian queen.

Before re-queening:  they where constantly building burr come in inappropriate places.  After a week with the feeder on after package installation I opened up the feeder to find comb heavily built in the feeder.  After getting fruswtrtated after finding the same the next week I pulled it and just stuck the normal covers on.  be danged if they didn't try to fill the top side of the inner cover with comb and stores.

After re-queening:  It seemed to take a very long time for the corner to turn, but now I have  a normal have growing as expected.

Was it the sack nature? Or the early loss of the queen?  unknown, but none of my Russians have ever done anything like that.

BTW how are the Ruskys?  Seem fine to deal with but I don't have a lot of Italian experience...maybe I'm just used to mildly testy!  I also generally don't work bees without protective gear.  Tell you what though.  My original hive, now 2 years old has so far produced 130 lbs. of just spring honey, the bees are always dripping off the porch, and in general it just seems to be monstrously strong.  If the 3 other Russian hives match this one next year, I am going to have a lot of liquid gold!

Not sure if ill try Saskatranz again.

Barry

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2019, 06:51:01 pm »
The only true Saskatraz are in Canada.  Pure Queens were shipped to California but the first generated queens for sale in the USA were breed to local drones and made available for purchase by folks like you and I.  They were called Saskatraz but were breed in California by a large well known queen breeder.  So the USA Saskatraz, breed in California are only 50% pure.

There may be indeed real Saskatraz in the USA  imported directly from Canada, but I have no excess to knowledge of this breeder(s) and no matter because subsequent production of queens in USA would dilute the genetics.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2019, 07:41:25 pm »
The only true Saskatraz are in Canada.  Pure Queens were shipped to California but the first generated queens for sale in the USA were breed to local drones and made available for purchase by folks like you and I.  They were called Saskatraz but were breed in California by a large well known queen breeder.  So the USA Saskatraz, breed in California are only 50% pure.

There may be indeed real Saskatraz in the USA  imported directly from Canada, but I have no excess to knowledge of this breeder(s) and no matter because subsequent production of queens in USA would dilute the genetics.

Good post Mr Van.  I would suppose the way to raise pure ones here,  a person would have to acquire a number of queens, for instance some from TheHoneyPump and some from Ian Steppler for example, raise drones from each, Then II accordingly having a diverse strain of genes but still the same pure breed. Wouldn't this work?
Phillip
If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2019, 10:08:38 am »
You bet ya, Mr. Ben, that would work.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Bushpilot

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2019, 12:32:24 pm »
The only true Saskatraz are in Canada.  Pure Queens were shipped to California but the first generated queens for sale in the USA were breed to local drones and made available for purchase by folks like you and I.  They were called Saskatraz but were breed in California by a large well known queen breeder.  So the USA Saskatraz, breed in California are only 50% pure.

There may be indeed real Saskatraz in the USA  imported directly from Canada, but I have no excess to knowledge of this breeder(s) and no matter because subsequent production of queens in USA would dilute the genetics.
I believe they "flood" the breeding area with the desired drones, improving the chances of a pure line.

Before re-queening:  they where constantly building burr come in inappropriate places.  After a week with the feeder on after package installation I opened up the feeder to find comb heavily built in the feeder.  After getting fruswtrtated after finding the same the next week I pulled it and just stuck the normal covers on.  be danged if they didn't try to fill the top side of the inner cover with comb and stores.
I and others I know have noted the same with the Sask line, they love the burr comb.


Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2019, 12:58:37 pm »
The only burr comb I have found is on top of the frames under the inner cover.Master beekeeper said those are ladders they build to get to the feed jars above.
Tom

Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2019, 04:40:55 pm »
I got stung again.

I was happy. I walked behind and around the hives, stood next to them and sat down on the ground about 3 feet away from the entrance on the side. I watched them for a good half hour and was pleased that the aggression had gone away.

I saw a bee fly from behind me, inches from my head and I think land. I remark how close that one was. Seconds later, and I do not know if I swatted first or got stung first, but one of them gals gets me again on the forehead.

I may follow Van's practice and get another queen for this hive.

I did notice how a few of the bees were more golden than the others. I guess that makes sense if there are different male genetics in the hive. Which makes me wonder if aggressiveness is inherited from the male or female side.


Tom

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2019, 05:30:19 pm »
aggressiveness

Tom, I have read several times, aggressiveness is attributed to the drone genetics.  This was not a bonafide articles and I have not been able to verify the accuracy, so take with a grain of salt.  There are definitely sex link traits but so little is known about honey bee genetics.  Difficult to determine hearsay from fact.

I do have a queen that for 3.5 years has generated Queens that produce gentle bees which raises questions to me, about aggressive genetics being derived from drones.  Go figure??
Blessings
Van
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 09:28:45 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2019, 05:44:13 pm »
aggressiveness

Tom, I have read several times, aggressiveness is attributed to the drone genetics.  This was not a bonafide article and I have not been able to verify the accuracy, so take with a grain of salt.  There are definitely sex link traits but so little is known about honey bee genetics.  Difficult to determine hearsay from fact.

I do have a queen that for 3.5 years has generated Queens that produce gentle bees which raises questions to me, about aggressive genetics being derived from drones.  Go figure??
Blessings
Van

I have read the same Mr Van. From what I understand, this was determined by one soured as Africanized drones were mating with domestic queens, showing the aggressive nature of Africanized. Please don?t ask me to go back and find this as it has been months since I read it and don?t have a clue where to find it. 😊
Phillip.
If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2019, 06:22:55 pm »
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones. This is why some hives start out calm then suddenly become aggressive and then calm down again. It can be caused by the seaman from one aggressive drone.
Jim Altmiller

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2019, 08:14:54 pm »
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones. This is why some hives start out calm then suddenly become aggressive and then calm down again. It can be caused by the seaman from one aggressive drone.
Jim Altmiller
Fascinating!  I would have figured that since the drones don't seem to display any aggression, since they don't guard the hive or anything like that, that the majority of the aggression would be determined by the female genetics.  But then again, I guess the queens don't guard the hive either.  I wonder if this is what's going on with one of my hives.  Over the course of the past month, they have become quite testy, and there is seemingly nothing different in the hive.  The workers were running around all over the frames during an inspection yesterday, and they may have been defensively balling their queen. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2019, 08:38:20 pm »
Member,
I would definitely bee sure to use the 10 minute and 30 second rule for smoking that hive every time you inspect it. This not only helps keep them calm during the inspection but I find that they are much less aggressive during the weeks after compared to not using this technique.
I have one hive out back that was very aggressive. It is now calming down.
Jim Altmiller

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2019, 08:51:43 pm »
Member,
I would definitely bee sure to use the 10 minute and 30 second rule for smoking that hive every time you inspect it. This not only helps keep them calm during the inspection but I find that they are much less aggressive during the weeks after compared to not using this technique.
I have one hive out back that was very aggressive. It is now calming down.
Jim Altmiller

Jim,

I haven't heard of this 10-30 rule.  Can you explain?
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2019, 09:54:30 pm »
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones. This is why some hives start out calm then suddenly become aggressive and then calm down again. It can be caused by the seaman from one aggressive drone.
Jim Altmiller
Fascinating!  I would have figured that since the drones don't seem to display any aggression, since they don't guard the hive or anything like that, that the majority of the aggression would be determined by the female genetics.  But then again, I guess the queens don't guard the hive either.  I wonder if this is what's going on with one of my hives.  Over the course of the past month, they have become quite testy, and there is seemingly nothing different in the hive.  The workers were running around all over the frames during an inspection yesterday, and they may have been defensively balling their queen.

A little bit off subject but genetics is relative to honey bees:
Member, sex linked traits are fascinating.  Known trait: lions and ligers.

Male lions have growth genes.
Females lions have suppression genes, genes that inhibit growth.
Tigers have normal genes for growth.

A male lion crossed to a female tiger yielded a 750 beast call a liger, see YouTube,  bigger than both parents combined.  Contrary: A male tiger breed to a female lion yielded typical size, 300 pounds males.

The discovery was made that male lions have sex linked growth genes.  However, the female lion have sex linked genes that suppress size.  So male lions are average say 350 pounds.

Female Tigers do not have the suppression genes, so when breed by a African male lion the growth genes are not suppressed resulting in kittens that grew to 750 pounds.

I have no comment on the nut job that crossed these cats.

Honey bee genetics are so complex do to the fact the queens have so many boyfriends.

If Jim say the drones carry the aggressive genes, thats good enough for me.  Jim is bonafide.  Lol
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.