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Author Topic: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?  (Read 4560 times)

Offline cao

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2019, 11:17:17 pm »
Jim,

I haven't heard of this 10-30 rule.  Can you explain?

I'm not Jim but the 10-30 rule is you smoke your hive then wait 10 minutes.  Smoke them again. wait 30 sec. then open them up.  I have found that those times are pretty flexible.  Basically when you smoke them the first time they get a little upset.  The ten minutes is for them to calm down.  Then when you smoke them  the second time they stay much calmer.  And you can get to work opening them up.

Online The15thMember

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2019, 11:34:18 pm »
Member,
I would definitely bee sure to use the 10 minute and 30 second rule for smoking that hive every time you inspect it. This not only helps keep them calm during the inspection but I find that they are much less aggressive during the weeks after compared to not using this technique.
I have one hive out back that was very aggressive. It is now calming down.
Jim Altmiller
I?ll be sure to use that method next time I open them up. They are not horribly aggressive, like flying out at me or anything, but just very agitated at being removed from the hive, especially compared to my other hives, which are very calm. Smoking them just seemed to make it worse once they were amped up, so I?ll definitely use the 10-30 method on them next time. 


A little bit off subject but genetics is relative to honey bees:
Member, sex linked traits are fascinating.  Known trait: lions and ligers.

Male lions have growth genes.
Females lions have suppression genes, genes that inhibit growth.
Tigers have normal genes for growth.

A male lion crossed to a female tiger yielded a 750 beast call a liger, see YouTube,  bigger than both parents combined.  Contrary: A male tiger breed to a female lion yielded typical size, 300 pounds males.

The discovery was made that male lions have sex linked growth genes.  However, the female lion have sex linked genes that suppress size.  So male lions are average say 350 pounds.

Female Tigers do not have the suppression genes, so when breed by a African male lion the growth genes are not suppressed resulting in kittens that grew to 750 pounds.

I have no comment on the nut job that crossed these cats.

Honey bee genetics are so complex do to the fact the queens have so many boyfriends.

If Jim say the drones carry the aggressive genes, thats good enough for me.  Jim is bonafide.  Lol
I always appreciate the extra information, Van.  I have seen pictures of ligers and tigons, truly enormous beasts. I did not know why it was that their size was so extreme, very interesting. The ?nut job? line made me laugh.  :cheesy:
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Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2019, 11:35:45 pm »
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones.
That makes sense to me.I was able to sit there untouched for a fair amount of time. Then let us assume that a bee descended from that nasty drone (~1/12 of the workers) comes by and objects.
It is also possible that I bumped into one of the bees I saw walking on the ground. Who knows.
What I do know is that 1/2 of my forehead, from the bridge of my nose to my temple to my eyebrow to my hairline is swelling and itching. Does rubbing and scratching spread the venom?
Tom

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2019, 11:45:46 pm »
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones.
That makes sense to me.I was able to sit there untouched for a fair amount of time. Then let us assume that a bee descended from that nasty drone (~1/12 of the workers) comes by and objects.
It is also possible that I bumped into one of the bees I saw walking on the ground. Who knows.
What I do know is that 1/2 of my forehead, from the bridge of my nose to my temple to my eyebrow to my hairline is swelling and itching. Does rubbing and scratching spread the venom?

Tom, I really don't know if it spreads the venom or not, but back when I use to swell I always suspected that it did.
I was really concerned that I might be allergic when I first started, but thankfully that is seldom the case anymore, the swelling. Hang in there Tom!! As your body gets use to the stings, hopefully for you it will get better, it did for me.
Philliip
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 12:01:53 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2019, 11:58:37 pm »
As your body get use to the stings, hopefully for you it will get better, it did for me.
Philliip

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a minor nuisance.
I hope you are right. My body has always been too good at producing histamines.  LOL
Tom

Online The15thMember

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2019, 12:16:59 am »
As your body get use to the stings, hopefully for you it will get better, it did for me.
Philliip

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a minor nuisance.
I hope you are right. My body has always been too good at producing histamines.  LOL

You should see my hand right now.  I got stung on Saturday, not by the aggressive hive, but by one worker from a really quiet hive who just flew up and landed on my pinky and stabbed me! She must have had a mean daddy.  :angry:   :cheesy:  I always swell up really bad after a sting, it?s nothing to worry about. What I wonder is if the reaction can be worse from a bee that stings you deliberately, vs a bee that stings in self-defense when you accidentally crush her.  This was the first time I?ve ever had a bee just fly up and stick me for apparently no reason, and this sting hurt way longer than normal.  Coincidence?  I don?t know.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2019, 12:24:27 am »
As your body get use to the stings, hopefully for you it will get better, it did for me.
Philliip

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a minor nuisance.
I hope you are right. My body has always been too good at producing histamines.  LOL

You should see my hand right now.  I got stung on Saturday, not by the aggressive hive, but by one worker from a really quiet hive who just flew up and landed on my pinky and stabbed me! She must have had a mean daddy.  :angry:   :cheesy:  I always swell up really bad after a sting, it?s nothing to worry about. What I wonder is if the reaction can be worse from a bee that stings you deliberately, vs a bee that stings in self-defense when you accidentally crush her.  This was the first time I?ve ever had a bee just fly up and stick me for apparently no reason, and this sting hurt way longer than normal.  Coincidence?  I don?t know.

That is a good, fair question. I have also have noticed that some stings seem to have more "kick" to them than others at other times at a similar area of the body. 
Phillip
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2019, 01:52:43 am »
Ligers?  Tigons?  These I gotta see!  Off to google and youtube I shall go.
Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2019, 09:52:52 am »
Jim,

I haven't heard of this 10-30 rule.  Can you explain?

I'm not Jim but the 10-30 rule is you smoke your hive then wait 10 minutes.  Smoke them again. wait 30 sec. then open them up.  I have found that those times are pretty flexible.  Basically when you smoke them the first time they get a little upset.  The ten minutes is for them to calm down.  Then when you smoke them  the second time they stay much calmer.  And you can get to work opening them up.

On calm hives, changing the times a little isn?t a problem. When you have a hot hive, use your watch.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Live Oak

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2019, 12:04:43 pm »
I have been reading this thread since it began.  Last season I purchased 80 Saskatraz queens.  I sold 20 of them and installed the remaining 60 in 47 nucs and requeened some 10 frame hives that I felt needed to be.  They are very good queens that immediately got to work brooding up each hive I placed them in and they were very gentle.  They were very economical on sugar syrup and pollen feed compared to my other bees.  They are very Winter hardy.  They were flying in 40 degree weather. 

I have some REALLY hot hives occasionally but none of these were the Saskatraz queened hives.  I have found that if a particular hive is hot or aggressive, give them some time, in almost every case they eventually calm down.  During a dearth, hives are prone to being hot or aggressive due to protecting their resources from being robbed out.  Allowing a hive to become too large will definitely make it aggressive and afford you a hot response more times than not due to having so many guard bees and just abnormally large population.  They should be split BEFORE they get to that point as depending upon the time of season and nectar flow will split themselves via swarming. 

The Saskatraz queens reputation has been a bit hyped up this season as they are fairly new to most beekeepers.  They are very good queens but not "all that and a bag of chips".  In my opinion, the best queens are the queens that YOU rear in your apiary over time that show the best traits.  Grafting your own queens not only produces the best queens but is a lot cheaper. 

Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2019, 06:02:11 pm »
I had a significant reaction to yesterday's bee sting on the forehead, ultimately receiving a Solu Medrol injection today. More information on that will be posted in the bee sting topic. I'll resist posting the selfies.

Something or somethings need to change for me including some or all of the following (in no particular order):
  • My behavior and / or technique;
  • My protective gear;
  • Continuing with the hobby;
  • Genetics of the hive.


I am not concluding that the Saskatraz queen line is the issue, maybe - maybe not. Maybe my queen has some bad seeds in her from one of the +/- 15 drones that she mated with (up to 60 drones according to a video I posted a link to last night). Even if 1 in 100, or 1 in 500, or 1 in 10,000 of her offspring are aggressive; I am undecided if I should take that risk even when considering the other factors listed above.

I also can not prove which of three hives the aggressive bees come from, it may not have been the hive I was closest to.

If I were to replace the queen(s), I would want the best chance of getting mated queens proven to have the Saskatraz characteristics. A premium price for a queen and frequent requeening may be less than the cost of further medical treatment, or worse. So lets discuss that point in this topic and the other factors in other topics. Send me a personal message, post a link, or let's start a new topic if you want to suggest a different strain, priorities being gentleness, overwintering in a colder climate and mite resistance. I do not want to derail this topic. Honey production is a lower priority for this backyard beekeeper. I'm sure there are a multitude of experiences and strong opinions regarding preferred genetics.

Where can I get a mated queen with the best chances of getting the gentle Saskatraz characteristic?
When would be an acceptable time to requeen?


Tom

Offline paus

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2019, 06:15:57 pm »
On a local honey bee post the subject came up; Are defensive hives better honey producers than gentle bees.  What is the concensis?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 06:36:22 pm by paus »

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2019, 06:25:10 pm »
I don't care if it is true, I will go without a bit of honey rather than spend a day working defensive / nasty bees. Plus I don't have time to use the 10/30 rule, even though it does work.
Spending a day on the bees with none on my veil is a pleasure.

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2019, 09:32:37 pm »
I had a significant reaction to yesterday's bee sting on the forehead, ultimately receiving a Solu Medrol injection today. More information on that will be posted in the bee sting topic. I'll resist posting the selfies.

Something or somethings need to change for me including some or all of the following (in no particular order):
  • My behavior and / or technique;
  • My protective gear;
  • Continuing with the hobby;
  • Genetics of the hive.

So sorry that you had such a bad reaction, incognito.  :-(

I hope that you do not give up, though.

I'd certainly wear protective gear.  In college I did not wear any protection for my own bees but was once asked to harvest another person's hive.  Got stung twelve times before retreating to the truck to put on gear.  They were banging into the window, trying to get to me!

Doing inspections now I wear gear.  Why suffer needlessly, right?  Though my hive is very gentle, they get irritated when I get deep into their brood chamber.  The impression I get with this hive is that they are protective of the queen.  Others with more experience may have an opinion about that.

I'm feeding now between flows, Mesquite to Cotton, because this is a first season build-up situation.  So, getting into the topmost super to change out quart feeders requires no protection.  I spray water to clear out a place for the feeder among the bees.  The guard bees are not up there.

I do not like manipulating hives very often, once every other week at the most.  Plus, I try to put everything back as I found it.  What if someone came into your house and rearranged the furniture and your cabinets?  What if they took half your children?  What if they took your mother!  Yikes!

My plan is to wean myself from the old HIVE AND HONEYBEE way to the more natural way described by Doctors Seely and Sharashkin.

I'm very happy with the Italians that Gary sold me at The Bee Place, San Antonio.  Next spring I want to expand with some of his Texan feral bees, which I will put in the country and not in my back yard.

Dr. Seely tells us that the bees now surviving in the wild in Upstate New York have some African genes.

Horses, like bees, have quirky personality traits.  Both are magnificent creatures.  Maybe a little uncertainty is the price we pay for being part of their wonderful lives?

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2019, 09:45:52 pm »
Sorry for the double post.

???
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 08:27:30 am by FatherMichael »

Online The15thMember

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2019, 09:53:06 pm »
Sorry about the bad reaction.  I can be scary when something like that is happening to your body.  I got stung several times in one afternoon once, and that evening had a high fever as a result of the stings.  It hasn't happened to me since, but it was definitely a little nerve-wracking.
 

I saw a bee fly from behind me, inches from my head and I think land. I remark how close that one was. Seconds later, and I do not know if I swatted first or got stung first, but one of them gals gets me again on the forehead.

This statement of yours stood out to me.  Let me first off say, that I agree 100% with what Van and other have mentioned, you should be able to walk near your hives in the bee yard without protection and not get targeted, IMO.  But I feel like displaying signs of fear, like swatting and moving suddenly, can sometimes set the bees on edge.  My mom is a little nervous up near the hives, and I feel like the bees seem to fly closer to her sometimes.  I don't know if they can sense fear, like pheromone-wise, or not, but it seems to me like sometimes bees target people more who are acting more agitated about their presence.  Just what I've witnessed. 

I would also mention that when you are in the bee yard unprotected, it's a good idea to keep out of the bees' flight path too and from the hive.  The guard bees tend to notice if someone or something is hanging around the entrance, whereas if you keep the sides and back of the hives, they will go about their business without even noticing you are there.  Not sure where you were standing in relation to the hives when you were stung, so maybe that was not the issue here.   

One more thing I'd like to mention is that I feel like the swelling with this sting was a big deal because it was on your face.  Never good to have any sort of medical issues around the eyes, or anything like that, definitely serious in this case.  But if you had been stung on, say, your arm, the swelling would not have been as big of a deal, even if it did swell a lot, because swelling on your arm wouldn't endanger any vital organs like your eyes or be at risk of cutting off your breathing.  I think it's probably a good sign that you had no systemic reaction, like hives or swelling of the throat, which means you probably are not allergic.  I certainly do not want to downplay the situation you had with this sting, but all I'm saying is that your reaction doesn't seem that abnormal to me, and I think that's a good sign.  I too wish you luck and hope the incident hasn't shaken you too badly.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2019, 10:02:56 pm »
Once again, you have posted a good post Member.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 10:54:35 pm by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2019, 10:58:45 pm »
Ligers?  Tigons?  These I gotta see!  Off to google and youtube I shall go.

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« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 11:31:17 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2019, 11:00:04 pm »
Ligers?  Tigons?  These I gotta see!  Off to google and youtube I shall go.

Here ya are, HP.

Goodness, that thing is huge!!! Thanks for posting!!!
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2019, 01:22:36 am »
1 - But I feel like displaying signs of fear, like swatting and moving suddenly, can sometimes set the bees on edge.

2 - Not sure where you were standing in relation to the hives when you were stung, so maybe that was not the issue here.   
3 - Never good to have any sort of medical issues around the eyes, or anything like that, definitely serious in this case.  But if you had been stung on, say, your arm, the swelling would not have been as big of a deal, even if it did swell a lot, because swelling on your arm wouldn't endanger any vital organs like your eyes or be at risk of cutting off your breathing.   
1 - I concur, and admit that I may have started the chain reaction or I may have reacted to the fast attack.  I will always wear at least a veil and top of some type until we reestablish mutual trust.

2 - Sitting cross legged on the floor about 3 feet from the right side of the hive adjacent to the entrance. Apparently in the flight path of at least one that passed on my right side. I was there for at least a 1/2 hour feeling good about the progress of reestablishing mutual trust before the encounter. I watched a few bees crawling in the grass. It is possible that I inadvertently threatened one if I shifted my position.


3 - June 10th & 18th cataract surgery, bloodshot and stinging eyes increased my concern. The recent swelling in my index finger took 9 days to go away on its own - I was concerned about that one and the one on my abdomen that swelled to the circumference of a tennis ball. Another on the pad of my thumb did not swell at all. All three of those stings were received simultaneously.


I was tested by an allergist about 35 years ago. He stopped the test because I reacted quickly to everything to one degree or another. I react to sunlight - grossly swollen skin and itching, not sunburn. My dermatologist never saw that in her practice, she appreciated the demonstration. I have to rebuild the tolerance to the sun every spring. Those who know my allergy history questioned my sanity when they found out I was becoming a beekeeper.


Anaphylaxis is a serious, life-threatening allergic reaction. The most common anaphylactic reactions are to foods, insect stings, medications and latex. If you are allergic to a substance, your immune system overreacts to this allergen by releasing chemicals that cause allergy symptoms. Yeah - that is how I roll.


While the reaction was not systemic, even a localized reaction could go from bad to worse so it needed to be treated. One can go from having local reactions to systemic reactions without warning.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 10:21:56 pm by incognito »
Tom