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Author Topic: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?  (Read 4559 times)

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2019, 10:34:53 pm »
This is another good thing about beemaster, we have experienced beekeepers here as well as inexperienced beekeepers of all stages from all around the world. Sometimes each of us can misunderstand one another, as well as being misunderstood by one another. But the good news is, we always seem to come to together for the good of one another and the good of the bees. Mr Claude told me a good while ago he was here for the good of the bees as well as the beekeeper.  I am secure in my mind that Mr Claude has nothing but good intentions for the beekeeper as well as the bees. Different teachers have different methods, of teaching and I think we all have, here, the same purposes and goals in mind. To help each other, learn all we can, and make friends along the way. Sometime we each can error from time to time. Especially Ben Framed. I also feel as we get to know one another better we will become more tolerant of one another?s different methods. As long as we keep on as we are going,,  communicating, we should all be fine; helping to make beemaster even better than ever.
Phillip

It's good what you write here.  Every forum is a relation of teaching and learning and each of us switches parts, back and forth. And to that point: As a retired high school teacher of science of 30 years, in the NYC public school system, I've seen many teachers come and go.  One thing always was a constant: Every successful teacher I have ever met always had that special combination of encouragement and kind criticism; a willingness to listen and to want to know; to really want to see how a student sees the world, and to try to understand every angle of a question.  A classroom becomes a dead place as soon as a teacher shows any trace of disdain or superiority - gives even a HINT of contempt for them - students can smell it out better than a scent hound. And they stop listening. And if it goes on too long, the methods of revenge students can take as a result are limitless. No matter how many Phd's or how much experience, this is abject failure for a teacher; AND for a self. And then that teacher is history. If he or she stays and doesn't change their ways, they become miserable, resigned and bitter. I'm very fortunate I learned this lesson early on - and I'd be happy to speak to anyone who is interested how I was able to change through an education based in ethics.  Meanwhile, I loved every minute of my job and when I retired I missed teaching terribly.

So some have already gotten the point of my comments above and to whom I am directing them.

All this to make a point. The bottom line: no matter what a student may ask or say - short of being disrespectful, of course - a teacher always, ALWAYS has to have a HOPE to respect them; their views, experiences, opinions. And students are absolutely desperate to hear kind criticism. Nobody needs to feel foolish, or disparaged, or dismissed for expressing an opinion or stating an observation. What they need is kind criticism - based on the quote below in my signature line - good will. I learned through my own experience that this is not only what makes a good teacher. It makes for a good human being. The desire to have good will makes for self respect and pride.

So HP, nobody expects an apology from you - something you mentioned in your post above. Especially if you don't see anything. But people insist that you have a hope to respect them. I learned it takes a great deal of humility to be self critical.  But it feels so good.

To quote the great American educator, Eli Siegel, "The biggest mistake a person can make, is not to learn from their mistakes."

"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2019, 11:22:42 pm »
Please disregard the negative comments made above and in the thread title wrt Saskatraz, they are categorically FALSE.

A commenter is asking the audience to disregard previous post by another beek.  The word FALSE is capitalized.
Two issues here:
1.  Assertive and belittling to ask an audience to disregard another?s post.
2.  False is another way, a single word of implying; YOU LIED.?   False is opposite of truth.  The capitalize places more emphasis.

I believe 2Sox has bees that are darn right mean, even to the point the bees pose a threat.  Further 2Sox is concerned with neighbors, wife, workers.  This individual demonstrates the caring kind of fella I would like to have as a neighbor.  I most certainly would not disregard such a respect post full of empathy for surrounding folks.

Also, I would enjoy having a knowledgeable fella as HP as a neighbor too.

So, now I am probably going to be attacked.  Whatever.  I am stating what I see on paper.  Don?t turn this into a situation in which we take sides.  We are all on the same side.  The way we express our ideas or understanding can cause friction or friendship.
Blessings

Blessings
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2019, 12:48:09 am »
Mr Van, The last thing that I want to do is have you think I am at odds with you because I am not. I am going to add some food for thought which might add some understanding to this unfortunate set of circumstances which might shed a little light of hope for all concerned. Hopefully with you permission I am going to quote a couple lines form your last post.

'Two issues here:
1.  Assertive and belittling to ask an audience to disregard another?s post.
2.  False is another way, a single word of implying; YOU LIED.?   False is opposite of truth.  The capitalize places more emphasis.

  Different folks see things different ways depending on where it is they are at particular time and events or communication which they may receive information on circumstances involved.
Example, 
  There may be a dog breeder here who breeds poodles, he or she may have a house full. These dogs may be the sweetest dogs, very best companions, and best producers and far as puppies are concerned, that the breeder has ever had the pleasure of dealing with.  This dog breeder may raise 100 or more of these puppies a year selling many and giving many to their beloved friends. But not only he but many of his, big breeder friends, have the same results as this breeder with the poodle  This dog owner-breeder is convinced that these are the sweetest, most loyal dogs that a person could ever have or want.
  Then comes a civilian dog owner, joins the dog forum, no breeder, just loves dogs. this same person buys a dog form a different breeder, hearing that the poodle is the dog to own!  So the new dog owner has went out and purchased himself a poodle, but not form the first mentioned breeder or his breeder friends. But perhaps another breeder form a different area or perhaps even a different country. So, The dog may or may not be what the second breeder, the seller claims it to be. It may look like a poodle but be as aggressive as a out of control doberman pincher once grown.  Bites his kids, bites his niece upstairs, bites the neighbors.  Wets on the other neighbors classic 67 mustang tires and growled at the owner of the classic car for good measure. So naturally the newer dog owner, goes on the dog forum, says to the whole world, DO NOT BUY A POODLE. THEY ARE KILLERS.
  Mr first breeder reads this and is astonished! He defends his loyal sweet breed, maybe a little harshly, but defends them just the same, shows videos of just how sweet, his friends who also breeds poodles, are. Tries to explain in detail just how there may have been a misunderstanding with the poodle breed.
  Is this not where we are except with bees instead. A total misunderstanding? As the old cartoon charter said trying to stop a feud, "Gentlemen let there be peace" and if I remember right the Hatfields and McCoys on that cartoon both open fired on the speaker who was asking for peace. SO please don't open fire on Mr HP and Mr 2Sox. Gentlemen let there be peace.
 :grin:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 01:47:08 am by Ben Framed »
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2019, 06:53:37 am »
Changed my mind. Apologies.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 02:03:08 pm by CoolBees »
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2019, 10:07:38 am »
Alan, Van and Phillip,
All good points to consider. We all need to be careful on how we write because written word does not convey information the same way as the information we receive in a face to face. Body language tells us a lot more about what the person wants to convey than the written language.
Enough said, let?s get back to the original thread.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2019, 10:17:29 am »
Alan, Van and Phillip,
All good points to consider. We all need to be careful on how we write because written word does not convey information the same way as the information we receive in a face to face. Body language tells us a lot more about what the person wants to convey than the written language.
Enough said, let?s get back to the original thread.
Jim Altmiller

Sounds good to me. Back on track.
Phillip
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Fishing-Nut

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2019, 11:25:19 am »
Opinions are like......well you know......everybody has one. If I had never worked saskatraz bees and was considering it. I would read this thread,  get me some of those jokers and then form my own opinions.  We grew a bunch of mustard greens this year. If I were to make a post about mustard greens it would say STAY AWAY FROM THEM!!! to me they are they are absolutely disgusting.....if my wife made a post about mustard greens she would tell you just how good they are, and that you need to get yourself a big helping of them. You might very well fix a bowl and then decide to go back for seconds.  Then again you might be like me and after a couple of bites they go in the trash can. If you've never had mustard greens, find out for yourself....you might like em.....they just ain't for me.
Take a kid fishing !

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2019, 11:51:19 am »
repeated post in error
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 12:13:21 pm by 2Sox »
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2019, 12:01:10 pm »
Cool Bees,

I appreciate your reply and view on this. And it's good to know something about your life.  I could talk some about my thirty five years of life before I was a teacher too; where I've been and what I've seen, working in the profit economy - but there is so much one can say covering the 72 years of my life. I sought to make a point using my career as a teacher because I believe it applies widely to life and to our experiences here on the forum.

A classroom becomes a dead place as soon as a teacher shows any trace of disdain or superiority - gives even a HINT of contempt for them - students can smell it out better than a scent hound.

The world is a classroom. This forum is a classroom.  And our *sense of smell* in this regard becomes even more acute as we age. I stand by what I said.

If a person posts here - no matter how much they know or where they've been - they better be darn sure they have a hope to respect the opinions of others and post with a desire that the person is better off through what they write. This is entirely possible - not matter what your "style" or "personality type" is.  It's either respect or contempt.  There's no in between. There is no compromise.

And I'm absolutely certain, there is not one person here that disagrees with this.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 12:28:42 pm by 2Sox »
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2019, 12:26:24 pm »
2Sox has you buddy received the bees? I was wondering how experienced he is in beekeeping?  If they are to hot for him, perhaps you can suggest re-queening  to him if he prefers?
Phillip
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2019, 01:02:51 pm »
My buddy, Nick, runs an urban beekeeping business all over the city - even gives classes. Right now, he's at EAS in South Carolina. He'll be picking up my Saskatraz hives on Sunday morning.

As a matter of fact, he's picking up some queens from Betterbee - getting one for me too for one of my other splits. I'm not sure if he'll be requeening this demon hive but I have every confidence that he'll know what to do. These bees are going into a cemetery - pretty isolated - but it's his call, of course.

Here's his website:

https://astorapiaries.com
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 01:42:21 pm by 2Sox »
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2019, 01:29:08 pm »
Honeybees:

 Saskatraz, Italian, Carniolean, Caucasian, Buckfast, Russian, New World Carniolean: with various color traits such as black, grey, or more common yellow with black stripes..  The Cordovan is a color trait, recessive and may or may not be applicable to all above but generally attributed as Cordovan Italian.

All above bee types have unique traceable origins.  Each offers specific traits such as varroa resistant, honey production, cold tolerance, small winter colonies, slow build, fast build, continuous large populations, populations directed by flow, gentleness, aggression, comb building, lack of swarming, or combinations thereof.

After a single breeding of the first generation the specific traits can be enhanced, eliminated, or maintained or acquired new traits.  So, what?s my point?  As a queen breeder I consider most bees to be mutts, but mutts with desired traits that reflect a given breed from above.  Due to the fact that queens breed with so many drones maintaining a true breed is difficult.

So I take with a grain of salt when a beek mentions a breed.  To me, if the honey bee
is grey I call it Caucasian, black is Carniolean, yellow black striped is Italian.  Kind of over simplified I realize but there is no registry for honey bees as with mammals i.e. horses, cats, dogs etc.

Also, some honeybees can be maintained rather pure by geological or winter conditions.  These special breeds can be selected and preserved over time but eventually the bees are shipped into other regions and the first generation breeds with local drones and the mutt slowly developes.

The individual beekeepers, that is you and I, monitor their bees and selects for their desired characteristics.

Conclusion:
I use bee breed names with a caviler attitude, as a general means of describing known or given traits such as Russians are known to be hygienic but tend to be more on the defensive side, but yield to the fact a true Russian honeybee may not exist in the USA.
Blessings
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 02:03:05 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2019, 02:21:24 pm »
Changed my mind. Apologies.

Glad I saw it first: Team working on an Idea -- good stuff.

Glad to learn about Saskatraz bees, too.  Looks like a promising strain.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2019, 03:12:13 pm »
Changed my mind. Apologies.

I?m impressed Mr. Cool, I?m impressed.
Blessings

Question to Father Michael.  Do you mind if I refer to you as Brother Michael?  I see from your pic your a young fella compared to me.  I wish to convey all respects with the word Brother.  Is this acceptable?
Blessings
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2019, 03:37:28 pm »

Question to Father Michael.  Do you mind if I refer to you as Brother Michael?  I see from your pic your a young fella compared to me.  I wish to convey all respects with the word Brother.  Is this acceptable?
Blessings

Sure, or just Michael or anything but Bozo -- I don't like being called Bozo.   :wink:

Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2019, 04:54:50 pm »
For the record, I only started beekeeping 3 months ago with 2 Saskatraz packages so I have limited experience.


The bees initially were easy to work with. Then the apiary got defensive which I hypothesize was partially due to a queenless split. Now things seem to be settling down again. Yesterday I did an invasive inspection that lasted at least 15 minutes without any issue while I was fully suited up. I went back to the hives in my street clothes and feel like I got chased away again. However, that could be due to my loss of trust in them when not wearing a veil.

When the packages were being established I had no problem going into the hives without a veil, smoke or gloves. One of the two hives had a population explosion and my son split his hive, putting the split between the two hives that were within 10 feet of each other. He stopped feeding the mother hive earlier but fed the split. The split did not produce its own queen and the temperament of the apiary seemed to change. Under the supervision of a master beekeeper, he then combined a full brood box from the mother hive with the queenless split. The newspaper between the boxes shifted and within a half hour there was carnage between the reunited bees (all from the same queen). There was hand to hand bee combat on the landing board and piles of dead and dying bees on the ground. We slipped another sheet of paper between the boxes and things calmed down a bit. The moved brood box had little top ventilation and no access to the entrance below. We did not clean up the pile of dead bees.


On subsequent visits to the yard I got stung on the foot when I just walked up to the back of a hive to replenish syrup. Then on another visit last Tuesday I got stung 3 times when I just started smoking under the inner cover of a hive. I can only speculate if that could be attributable to the still queenless hive or that I stopped feeding syrup to that hive the day before during a slowing nectar flow. I do not believe that robbing is going on. Any time I went near the hives without a veil during the past few weeks one or two bees would circle my head and follow me anywhere in the yard. It could be that I was overreacting after getting zapped at least two other times. The bees don't seem to chase other visitors like they chase me. Maybe I get closer than they do. Maybe I have a scent that they don't like. Obviously I do not know which of the three hives the defensive bees were coming from. The master beekeepers in my club warned us that the temperament of the hives would change as we entered the expected dearth in July. Maybe the change in temperament is a result of a combination of factors.

I delayed posting my experiences with the Saskatraz until I did yesterday's visit. We believe that a new queen should have emerged in the queenless hive by yesterday. We never marked the queen in the hive that was split and I did not see the marked queen in the hive I inspected yesterday. We finally got some rain yesterday evening and today after a dry spell. If a new queen is mated, it will be with local drones diluting the Saskatraz bloodline. I'll keep you posted on further observations.
Tom

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2019, 05:22:38 pm »
incognito
It?s been my experience that bees will be more defensive when the dearth is in play and less defensive when a flow is on. I do not like to wear a full suit either, or for that matter a ventilation jacket. I do however, most of the time wear a veil. I have come to the conclusion, that not suiting up one will receive a sting now and then, weight that against the heat and humidity of the South and grit my teeth and take the stings over the hot protection. There are exceptions to this also.
Phillip
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2019, 06:36:56 pm »
Incognito: for your reference, mid July, my 16 hives full of honey and I can walk around freely without being chased nor stung.  I walk my bees almost everyday.  Hives that produce bees that become aggressive are not tolerated.

Just me, not my advice to you nor others.  I will not tolerate mean bees: bees that chase me, bees that sting me while wearing short sleeves and just watching the bees.

I have visitors all the time visit to look at my bees, I can?t afford stinging bees.  Folks travel 100 miles to see my Alpha hive, obtain queens from my very gentle bees created by my Alpha queen that is 3.5 years old.  She is an incredible incredible queen, Alpha.

I insist on gentle bees, even during a dearth, even full of honey, I don?t care for defensive bees.  During inspections I receive a sting about once a month with veil and jacket for protection.  No full body suit.  An occasional sting during inspections is ok.  Usually my fault as I inadvertently squish a bee.
Blessings

Changing subject: Blessings to you Brother Michael.  A Man of the cloth is my envy, has my trust and is looked up to for advice.  May we break bread and share one day.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline incognito

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2019, 06:44:39 pm »
Oh it was hot here yesterday. Mid 90's is hot for us. But after 3 stings last week and I needed to look carefully in all 4 boxes to see if the hive was honey bound after all that feeding, I wanted to make sure I was moving calmly and slowly to really test their temperament. I was happy with yesterday's interaction. I used a minimal amount of smoke. I may have been too jittery if I was not fully dressed.

The body stings are tolerable. The bees buzzing my ear without a veil gets me unraveled. One got me on the top of the head a few weeks ago, another got me by the ear. They got me 6 or 7 times so far.


Do you guys think a queenless hive is a factor affecting the apiary?
Does crushing them when moving boxes set them off?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 07:02:54 pm by incognito »
Tom

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2019, 07:46:35 pm »
Changing subject: Blessings to you Brother Michael.  A Man of the cloth is my envy, has my trust and is looked up to for advice.  May we break bread and share one day.

I hope so, Van!

I have children and grandchildren in Arkansas.  Lived there 15 years -- beautiful state.